' A Friend Indeed '
An Exclusive Interview with
R o b ..B a r r a c o

(click on all photos below for bigger)

PHILZONE.COM: Do you have any favorite or standout moments from Spring Tour?

ROB BARRACO: We were playing that outdoor show in West Virginia and it was a particularly good one - it seemed like everybody was really in the moment. In the chorus of Warren's tune "Tastes Like Wine," Phil started ripping these bass chords that were thunderous, I mean, they shook the stage and Jimmy and I were looking at each other like, "Whoa, what was that all about?" Since I've been playing with Phil, I haven't really heard his bass sound like that. It really reminded me of the way his bass sounded back in the day. It was just so huge. Jimmy and I were just crackin' up for the whole rest of the show.

PZ: It must have made the rest of you play a lot harder.

RB: Yeah, and it's pretty exciting when he's laying it down like that. After the show I went up to him and said, "You sounded extraordinary tonight" and I asked him, "What's up?" He said, "Ahh, I just got this brand new bass, it's the same as my other one but it's got new pick-ups." So from that moment on, for the rest of the tour, his bass ripped it up. I was totally floored every night. So, that was one of the highlights on this tour. Phil would get this demonic look on his face when he was dropping those bombs. (laughs) He knows when he's doing it too - he gets that devilish look when he's looking over his glasses! (laughs)

PZ: Oh yeah…(laughs)

RB: Let's see, the other stand out moments? They all kind of blur now that I've had time away from it. I remember the Charlotte show, the 4/20 show, was really cool because we opened the second set with Dylan's "Rainy Day Women" and the whole audience was singing the chorus, you know the, "…everybody must get stoned…" part, and that was really cool. Same show, we did our first "Blues for Allah". We merged that with a Coltrane sounding groove. It worked so well. We played it instrumental until we sang "Under eternity" and the last chorus of "Allah". Also, as the tour progressed, more and more people started coming on board. You could see it, you know, from the outside scene. There was kind of this buzz. More and more people were just getting so turned on to it.

PZ: Any reflections about the road trip - coming up along the East Coast - through Florida and all of that?

RB: It was really fun playing the Southern shows. The Florida shows were good and the show that we did at the Hard Rock was different. It's interesting to play at more of a bar-like atmosphere than a theater. The same goes for the Philly shows; it really felt like we were playing at a big bar . It's a very different atmosphere. I really dug playing the Southern shows. People were really wonderful- warm, loving and accepting. Alabama…

PZ: Yeah what was that one like? That must have been fun because that was the first time playing there and that must have been the first time a lot of those fans got the opportunity to see Phil and Friends.

RB: Oh yeah, a lot of those people - that was their first time. I talked to a lot of those people outside of the venue. I walked to the theater before the show and ran into a lot of people that I knew from Zen Trickster days and it was their first shot at seeing Phil and they were really psyched. There were also a lot of people from around the country. I ran into people from Oregon and Washington, people who have been on Phil's trail for about a year now. (laughs). It was wonderful to see the support Jimmy and Warren got from family and friends in North Carolina (their home state). I played a lot of Southern shows with The Zen Tricksters so it was cool to hook up with great people that I haven't seen in a while. They were really, really psyched at what our mission has been - our collective improvisation, that is. They were really diggin' on that.

PZ: Right on! How about some of the new tunes? Maybe you can reflect on them - you've been a Deadhead for a number of years and you must have some feelings on Robert Hunter being back writing lyrics again.

RB: Oh yeah, I mean what can you say? I think Robert Hunter and Bob Dylan are the greatest lyricists of the 20th century, probably will be in the 21st century too. It has always been in the back of mind that it would be a wonderful thing for the scene if Robert were to step back up and start writing some really hopeful music again and I think that he really accomplished that. The song "Celebration," I mean the lyrics are just so uplifting! He's really saying it - it's like, "Look, it's time to do this again. The time is right. Things have gone into disarray and now we've really got to straighten it out." And I think he's not just talking about our scene, I think he's talking about the whole country. There's a line in there about the stolen election. (laughs) I think he's talking about where things have gone and now it's time to straighten them up. (laughs) I think it's wonderful that he's writing. All of those songs have really floored us, especially "Night Of A Thousand Stars." Those lyrics are so incredible. They're already classics in my mind. I hope I get the opportunity to write with him. That has been a lifelong dream of mine.

PZ: With those Hunter tunes, did you guys kind of instantaneously make them your own?

RB: Well, yeah. Everybody has a bit of input into it. Phil wrote the music and had an idea at direction. Little by little we chipped away at it until we found a form that worked for everybody. Everybody contributed. That's kind of what I'm hoping for with my music and any music that I'm collaborating on. That's really the object, that everybody has their say. I wouldn't want to have it any other way. I have been in situations where it's been: "This is the tune. This is the way it's gotta sound." You know, you never feel like you're a part or it. I don't ever want everybody to feel that way. I would never want to disenfranchise anyone in the developmental stage.

PZ: I sure hope that at some point each one of you can sit down and write something with Hunter.

RB: Well, I think that will happen. I've heard, and I don't know who I've heard it from, that Robert might come out to some of those California shows. I'd love to meet and talk with him.

PZ: That would be great! So tell us a bit about your new material you've been working on.

RB: I have five or so new songs. Four of them are brand new that I haven't played with anyone. One of them is a song that I wrote with Jeff Mattson from the Zen Tricksters that the Tricksters did a few times, and I've given the music to everyone in the band. I hope we get to play them on one of the next few tours. I think that is one of Phil's desires - for everyone to contribute to the band. I mean, Warren has already contributed some of his stuff. There's that gorgeous Robert Hunter tune too, "Lay of the Sunflower" - that's absolutely stunning.

PZ: Are there lyrics to your new tunes?

RB: Oh yeah, I've written lyrics to three of the songs, one of them is an instrumental, and one Jeff Mattson wrote the lyrics and I wrote the music. That tune I especially like - it sounds a bit like "Samson" and I've always loved "Samson". You know the groove to "Samson?" I was talking to Phil about "Samson" and he said that he always loved playing it, but I think it might be a good way to get that groove without actually doing "Samson." I'd love to do "Samson" anyway, but this could be an alternative. It's got a nice little hooky chorus and plenty of room for blowin'. One of the other tunes I wrote is called "Birdwoman" - it's about Julie, my partner in life. She's the birdwoman! (laughs)She has about 300 parrots!! I really feel very strong about that song. It's so true to me. All of the visions I had the first time I met her and the first couple of times we ever hung out were especially cool.

PZ: Wow, that's beautiful.

RB: I kind of tried to write a tune along the lines of the American Beauty vein. Something a little bit more laid back - a little folkier. It's got a really strong chorus and harmony. I wrote another tune called, "Drink This Water" which is kind of a homage to Jerry in an odd way. I kind of remember when Jerry died thinking, "I wish somebody could've done something to have averted this tragedy." That song kind of came out of those thoughts. Last year I had written this elaborate kind of instrumental piece and I never really had a place to put it. When I wrote "Water" it fit perfectly in it. It's real progressive, jazzy, and almost Middle Eastern in the instrumental. I'm really psyched about doing it with these guys. John Molo, Jimmy Herring and Warren Haynes, not to mention PHIL! - are just so capable of doing anything. You know, the sky's the limit with them. I don't ever have to worry about writing something that the artists aren't going to be able to perform. I never dreamed that I could play with guys who communicate so well with each other and so quickly. The Zen Trickster guys, Jeff Mattson and Klyph Black - I've played with Jeff for eleven years and I've known Klyph my whole life - so over a long period of time we developed a great rapport. But, with this band, by the end of the first day of rehearsals, we were making monumental music together. Some of the rehearsals for the last Fall Tour was some of the best music I'd ever heard. I mean we were cracking up! After the first show in Vermont - Jimmy and I were back stage saying, "We've gotta get this band to stay together, man!" We called Warren over and said, "We've gotta keep this together man!" and he just kept saying, "I know!" (laughs) That's been the idea - to keep this thing together for as long as we can because I think it's very rare to find a group of guys who click this well. As Phil is fond of saying, "the gods want this music to happen!". It's like the Miles Davis Quintet. It's that kind of rapport. (laughs) Phil's been calling us the quintet - it's kind of a tribute to that band. (laughs)

PZ: Could you tell us a little bit about your involvement with the Allen Woody Tribute album?

RB: It was a beautiful thing being in the studio with Phil. You know, Phil hasn't been in the studio for many, many years so he was like a little kid - he told me he felt like a little kid. He was really lovin' it you know. Grisman came and we were all like, you know, WOW! WHEW!" (laughs) Then we very quickly got down to making music and got this basic track down. It was wonderful. I play on this funky upright piano that Warren actually used on the whole record. John Cutler mixed it and really got some beautiful sounds, especially the bass lines. Then David Grisman came. I hung out with Grisman for a little while and then Phil had to leave. Grisman listened to the track we laid down without him once and says, "Okay, I'm ready." He goes into this little room with a mic and was playing the most magnificent music you've ever heard on the mandolin. I mean, Warren and I were just like, "WOW!" There's this one part of the song where the lyrics talk about Angel Wings and Grisman does this high, lonesome trill and a gorgeous descending line and we're all like, "OH! YES!" We got chills, man!!!!!! Then he flubs one note and goes, "Oh, I gotta do that again." He says, "Roll the tape again and I'll redo it." We all looked at each other and said, "Oh no, no, no, man. You can't redo that. You've gotta just fix that one note." He said, "Oh no, no, no, no." So we got into this little discussion about it and he says, "Do you want to hear Angel Wings? Do you want to hear Angel Wings?!?!" He goes back in there and we recorded him on a different track. He couldn't do what he did that first time. What he did that first time was just so spontaneous and beautiful. It's just not something that you could go back in there and do again. You know what I'm saying? It was just a truly beautiful moment-pure magic. To witness such genius, that was a really special moment. Warren just played me a mix of it and the whole album is really incredible. He played me the Jack Bruce tune. If you've ever been a Jack Bruce fan( bassist for Cream), this is quintessential Jack Bruce. I don't know if Jack co-wrote the tune with Warren or not, but it was written for him and he sings on it. Man, just everything on the record is great - it's going to be monumental!

PZ: What was it like sitting in with the Allman Brothers this March [2001]?

RB: Well, that's another one of those moments. The first concert that I ever went to go see live was The Allman Brothers. I was an Allman Brothers freak before I got into the Dead.

PZ: Where was that show?

RB: I saw them at CW Post [on Long Island, NY]. It was the first show that they did after Duane Allman had died. I actually had tickets to see them when Duane was alive, and then Duane got killed and they had to cancel that tour. That was in '71. Between '71 and '74 I must've seen them over twenty times. I was really into them a lot.

PZ: So what was it like to play with them?

RB: I got to play for the encore - "One Way Out" and "Statesboro Blues" - two songs I've played a million times with a million different people - but nothing compares to playing with those drummers for those tunes. Nobody plays those kinds of blues shuffles like they do. They just have a magic happening that I've never heard any other drummers have. So it was really cool. I sat down and I shared Gregg's organ bench with him and played his piano while he played organ. We started playing and I turned to my right and Gregg starts singing, "Wake up mama…" I mean, how much better can it get? (laughs) Then, of course you're lost in the music and you stop thinking about it and you're in the moment. It was a beautiful ride for the eight minutes or so that I was up there. (laughs) After the first tune, Greg turned to me and said "Man, you sound great, but, would be please stop jumping up and down on my organ bench. It's very old and it means a lot to me". You know how I get into it when it's happening! (laughs) Any time that I get the chance to play with Derek [Trucks] it's awesome. He's one of the greatest musicians. It just blows my mind that he could be that young. He has the soul of an old Delta Blues man. (laughs)

PZ: Hopefully you'll get more opportunities to play with him now that he's opening for some of the Phil & Friends shows this Summer.

RB: Yeah, I hope he sits in with us. That would be special. It's always special when he plays with us. He kind of reminds me of Branford [Marsalis]. He never steps on anybody. He's so respectful of everyone's space and he finds his little niches and goes for it. He's just huge! That's the way Branford plays. He listens to everybody and interjects at precisely the right place and then it challenges you. He studies Indian ragas on slide guitar. He starts getting into those and it's really deep. It's not just the blues - it's other-worldly! The other cool sit in I had was with Gov't Mule. They're a lot heavier than anything I've ever done. Of course, when I sat in we did "Soulshine," a tune that I've played with Phil and Friends. It was great playing with Chuck Lovell - he owns that R&B/blues genre. Oh man, he was rockin! I was influenced by Chuck way back in the early '70's from seeing him with the Allman Brothers. As a matter of fact, he prompted my switch from organ to piano. When I heard him play piano, I new I had to, as well. Seconds after that of course, I got turned on to McCoy Tyner (laughs) but Chuck's way of playing was so different from any other piano player that plays in any other rock band. He really had a voice. I mean, I loved Keith Godchaux, but his role was more of a support role and a color role, but Chuck had a solo voice in a band that had huge soloists. I mean, how do you compete with Dickey Betts, you know? (laughs) Especially back in the day. Dickey was at the height of his playing and Chuck held his own and kicked ass! He played some of the most monumental rock solos ever! I mean that piano solo in "Jessica" is one of the best rock n' roll piano solos I've ever heard. That's the first solo I ever learned. (laughs) I met Chuck at another Allmans show at the Beacon a couple of days after I sat in and talked to him for a while. He's such a sweet man! No big ego there - he's just very respectful. I talked to him about his music and he told me that he just recorded a solo piano record, which I got to hear, and it was unbelievable.

PZ: So cool! How was it doing the Nash Bridges show? Can you tell us a little bit about that? You did the "Bertha" so the spotlight was kind of on you.

RB: Yeah, that was kind of interesting. What really was funny about that whole scene was the pretend audience. There were all of these scantily-clad made up hippie women with martinis in hand. Like you might ever see that at a Dead show. (laughs) That was pretty funny. It was a good experience to see how they actually put that together. I have never been involved in a TV set before. I've been on TV sets before, but not for a really long time. The one thing that really blew me away is that everything is automated. The whole camera shooting is done by computers! It's incredible. There's no more guy holding the camera! Now they're able to get totally different perspectives and angles that you could never get before. So that was pretty cool. Actually seeing it on TV was a big trip. I missed the airing of it because we were playing in Philly, so I saw it after the fact. We just got off the stage from break and we missed the opening scene. We all sat down and got to see Phil do his thing (laughter) and that was so funny. (laughs) Phil man, Phil just killed me - [mimicking Phil's voice] "Are you a Deadhead?" - I mean, like he asks that of anybody. (laughter) That was pretty funny. My kids recorded it so after tour we sat down and watched it and had a good laugh. It was a good experience - something a little different.

PZ: How has your approach to the music changed over your time with Phil and Friends?

RB: The Zen Tricksters prepared me for my journey with Phil. Being in the moment was the order of the day. Each musician in the quintet has an uncanny ability to go to that space, being in the moment. I've changed because I'm absorbing all the other guys moments whether I'm aware of it or not. Molo has me shedding salsa! When I listen to him play those grooves, I get very inspired. He is amazing!

PZ: That's for sure!

RB: There are a lot of drummers out there, without naming any names, that have incredible technique but no heart. They're really flashy - they can do this and that, but it's from pyrotechnique's sake rather than playing from the heart. Everything Molo plays is from the heart, but with that extra technique, you know. That's why it's so much fun to play with him. He's got huge ears - he hears everything. If I start copping a salsa groove, then he's right on it. Then he starts doing his thing and I'm on him. It's fun!

PZ: What are your thoughts on Phil's "Odyssey of the Spirit" project?

RB: The Grateful Dead community has also been there for each other. Look at The Wharf Rats, SEVA, or Phil's Unbroken Chain foundation. But it's time to take that spirit into the community at large. We can infuse the whole country with that spirit! There are many ways we can do this: helping individuals in need, starting projects to feed the homeless, giving blood and becoming an organ donor. Phil is doing a number of blood drives on the summer tour. I'll be attending a few. I hope many people give of themselves.

PZ: Do you have any side projects you've been working on or expect to in the future?

RB: As a matter of fact, I just talked to a good friend of mine, Rob Friedman, in New York yesterday. He's a producer and a great songwriter and an excellent guitar player. He asked me if I wanted to start recording my own things. I've talked to a number of musicians (without naming any names), that are interested in putting something together. So he said to me, "Why don't you go into the studio and record an album, and if we can get some interest, you can go out and play and support it?" I think after the Summer Tour I'm going to sit down with him and collaborate. I'd really like to do something with Jimmy. His playing is huge and he really likes to go out there and just go for it and that's right up my alley.

PZ: Yeah, Jimmy's band, Project Z, is huge!

RB: Yeah, yeah! So we've talked about putting something together. You know, Jimmy has been so busy this past year and he's got the Project Z thing happening. But once he starts getting his path together I think we might be able to do some collaboration. I'd love John to be involved with it too. Yeah, I'm definitely going to put something together in the later part of this year. You know, with The Zen Tricksters we did close to two hundred shows a year. I was always on the road and always playing - not that I want to go back to doing two hundred shows a year or anything. (laughs) I mean, with Phil's thing, we do maybe around seventy? I'd like to get in a little more playing with other musicians - especially in a live situation.

PZ: That's where the inspiration comes.

RB: That's it exactly. So I've been thinking about that a lot in the last few months, but I've been enjoying my time off as well because I have been working harder on my playing, more so than I have in many years. I'm actually spending time with loved ones: my children, mom and Julie the birdwoman! - that's something that I haven't been able to do in many years. So that's great. But hey, I always love to do some playing!

PZ: Right on. Well, all the best with everything. Thanks for your time and I can't wait to see you this Summer!

RB: Thank you! See ya on the road!

Conducted June 8, 2001 by Bret Heisler, bret@philzone.com
Transcribed by Jennifer DeVincenzo, jendee@philzone.com
©2001 www.philzone.com and www.2012productions.com
All photos ©2000-2001 Schnee. All rights reserved.

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