I pulled this off of the First Union Site. I was not sure where to post, nor have I seen this up anywhere else. If you have Friends on the road help them out. The venue looks sweet! I was not able to purchase tickets for the new loaction, yet.

The address is:

420 North Washington Avenue
Scranton, PA 18503
Box Office570) 344-1111

(No I did not make up the 420 part)

Links below and First Union message:

http://www.scrantonculturalcenter.org/

http://www.firstunionarena.com/Pressroom/Article.asp?Article_Id=47


PHIL LESH and Friends Show has CHANGED LOCATIONS

THE PHIL LESH & FRIENDS
SHOW ON JULY 15 TH @ THE
FIRST UNION ARENA HAS
CHANGED LOCATIONS TO THE
SCRANTON CULTURAL
CENTER. ALL OTHER DETAILS
REMAIN THE SAME.

ON SALE NOW !!!!

Tickets available at:
Ticketmaster.com, Ticketmaster Outlets,
Charge by Phone(215) 336-2000, (570)693-2000, (570) 693-4100

And at the Scranton Cultural Center Box Office.

That venue is awesome.. I saw the sweetest Ratdog show there back in March. It is so small, there's not a bad seat in the house at all. In fact i don't think there are any seats, unless they're in the balcony. I don't know how the First Union Arena would have been, but this place is really cool.

Anyone have an extra for this show. I'm going to be in that neck of the woods this weekend and would love to stay over. I'm waiting to hear back from the boss but she generally says yes to these things.

Any place with 420 as it's address has gotta be pretty cool.

Rainy day Women #12 & 420> It Stoned me> Panama Red> Fire Up the Ganja

Bradfest,

Ticketbastard has tickets on sale again on-line. Tickets are General Adm.

Scranton sucks! The venue is very small, tickets are nearly sold out, and heads that pull into town the day of the show are gonna be high and dry for a ticket. Thay will over sell the show by a few hundred which will create a sardine situation. Most important thing to remember is that the Scranton Police will be there in full force stopping anyone who so much as cracks open a beer. Keep the goodies on the DL. There is only one parking area for the venue and it is conveniently located directly across from the police station. This change in venue is very very sketchy. Those of you who have been on tour before remember the Montage Mt. Ampetheater and how many arrests were made there. Be careful everyone, this is a very peculiar, last minute venue change. Hope to see you all in the sardine can. Your Friend C

Thanks for the pep talk, Charlie. Got me all psyched up! Just hope the night doesn't suck TOO bad!!

Scranton does not suck and yes it may be pretty crowded in there but it will be no worse than the electric factory and place like that and just like any venue dead in the middle of down town there is not going to be a lot of parking lots
and as far as arrests if you don't do any thing stupid you should be fine. this should be interesting that they are playing at amphitheatres and big venues it may be a very special show enjoy!

This is in a Masonic temple and the address is 420! Maybe it will be "Blues for Allah - Rainy Day Woman Jam - Blues for Allah"!. I will have 2 extra tix to sell for face value, also. Leaving now. See ya there!

Just left the Box Office. They had about 200 tickets left. This place looks really cool. Should be a great show. I'll be there with my Green Glow stick flashing. Thanks Headlight!!

pre show gathering at whistles franklin ave.

What’s left after a strong weekend run? Will the band be spent after a 3 day run or will they reclaim that intensity that keeps us on the road for more? Will they breakout any old gems or have they played everything they are going to play this summer? I know better than to spend too much time on what is out of rotation, but I just could not resist. Hoping to catch a glimpse of what may come.
Here are just a few song that are down in the rotation:

Tom Thumb's Blues (5/05/02)
Deal (5/26/02)
Pride of Cucamonga (5/28/02)
And it Stoned Me (5/29/02)
Dear Mister Fantasy (6/27/02)
I am the Walrus (6/27/02)
Playing in the Band (7/03/02)

For the new Songs
Welcome to the Underground (7/05/02)
Beautifully Broken (7/08/02)
Angel Band (7/08/02)

Only Time will tell… All I really know is that I hope to be there in a few hours and to see you there…

safe travels,

David

From Dewit:


Set 1:
Jam>
Birdsong>
Jam>
Midnight Train>
Jam>
Scarlet Begonias>
Direwolf
The Real Thing>
Jam>
Cold Rain & Snow

Set 2:
Jam (Cumberland tease)>
Passenger>
Jam>
Built to Last>
Tons of Steel>
Jam (Loose Lucy tease)>
Casey Jones
Help on the Way>
Slipknot>
Jam>
Golden Road

Donor Rap, no band intros

E: Franklin's Tower

yikes, hope the set list doesn't tell the whole story on this one. those jams must have been pretty long considering the short songs they played around them (especially 2nd set). I'm sure it was fun.

I can't believe I turned down a ride to this one...

WOW..Looks like the second set was the one to miss on this tour...ouch....

Jam (Cumberland tease)>
Passenger>
Jam>
Built to Last>
Tons of Steel>
Jam (Loose Lucy tease)>
Casey Jones
Help on the Way>
Slipknot>
Jam>
Golden Road

Donor Rap, no band intros

E: Franklin's Tower


PASSENGER, BUILT TO LAST, TON'S OF STEEL???
ALL IN THE SAME SET??? PLEASE!!!!
I'm sure the rest of the set made up for it, but I don't want to ever see any of those songs again, ever. Don't even talk to me about Casey Jones. ewwhhee

When in doubt, throw down the VIOLA.

The beach rocked from the onset. Even dug Reid shitting in his pants. Great job by him.. He looked so cute while scared. Felt his joy.

See ya in Harford.

Hey everyone... I'm 19 and this was my first Phil show. It was really somethin special for me. I got there around 630ish and we hung out outside a while. It was too bad that the crowd outside without tickets was about as big as the one inside... anyway... Phil went on at 8:15 and played til about 9:40 then came back on about 10 10 and played til 1130 about 2:45 of playing. The atmosphere was amazing and everyone in the building was having a blast, especially the 5 guys on stage. The jamming was pretty extensive but that didn't seem to bother anyone there. The first set was great, the 2nd was phenomonal. Highlights for me were the Real Thing and Help is on the way. The jam before Casey Jones was pretty cool too. After the 2nd set Phil announced they didn't have much time and didn't even introduce the band and they went into Frankins Tower. This was the first of many shows for me and I thank the band for being into it as much as the great crowd. Great show, great time, great people. Rock on from Binghamton -Will

The sleeper hit of the summer for sure. Great first set, and worth a listen to, especially for us, as it was so freaking hot in there it was unreal. I copped the best squat in the joint, in a window...

As for the second set which is vivid...Passenger and Tons of Steel are two of my top ten...where is the elusive King Soloman? Casey Jones rocked big time, and the speed up was incredible. Great great version tonight. The Help-Slip Jam was pretty darn cool. Loose Lucy got shy, which stunk because they weren't really teases, but much more than that...the Casey was the only alternate to that cool, and it blasted its way in. The Golden Road kicked serious but, in all the right ways, and the Franklins was great, though obvious at that point.

Crowd pretty hardcore, security kind. Must have busted everyone in the joint for smoking, but simply gave us a please put it out. Poor fire marshall worked overtime, especially after the dudes in the project housing next door let go a sea of fireworks, and they had to evacuate the joint. Lots of the tenants hanging out the windows listening and bopping out.

There wasn't a darn thing wrong with the show. I don't know who it was above, but Phil and Friends is not only a jamband, but the quintessential JamBand, so wishing for a little less jamming seems a bit odd to me.

The jams were pure, focused and full of joy. Another show geared for fun. For those of you who caught Asbury, much along the same lines, but minus the intensity...good clean fun, and some incredible tunage for sure.

The obvious song change to the setlist in Cold Rain and Snow rocked the damn house down for sure, and it is one of the best versions out there. Pure and simple, complex and mindblowing, get the discs to this show...been pretty darn happy with PNC, Jones and now this temple joint. Not alot of folk, cool venue, and until the second set, best restrooms on tour so far. Somethings do count. The water was yechh.

Thanks to the Aron dude who gave me that perch, and then split before the second set. We thoroughly enjoyed that spot, room to dance, the bar cleared out so no people around, and lots of happy faces.

This show gets an A all around. The one thing that could have made it perfect, central AC...it was desperately needed.

please no cumberland teases at camden. it was teased there last year. i gotta hear it.

I don't know who it was above, but Phil and Friends is not only a jamband, but the quintessential JamBand, so wishing for a little less jamming seems a bit odd to me.

precisely, thanks for the review Dewitt!

When will those negative people(clearly not phans) get it? It's not what they play, but how they play. That negativity is exactly IMHO what held back the Dead, especially toward the end and will ruinthe good vibes Phil is trying to propagate.

The Scranton show was great. The venue beautiful, but too hot. The vibe was A++++! The second set was smokin' all the way through.

And for that Mr. Negativity above, I would have to say I've seen The Wheel way too many times, but I try not to bum each time I see it. Hoping for a Mason's in Camden.

Peace and Positivity

Let the music flow or don't join our circle dancing around the sun!!!!!

Did I just reread that post from JonnyLob? You weren't even there? You haven't a clue? Or was that just bad sentence structure? If you were there, why not review the first set?

And I omitted the Built to Last by accident. It was just as good as everything else.

Three for three on the righthand side, not including the woods thus far.

>>>PASSENGER, BUILT TO LAST, TON'S OF STEEL???
ALL IN THE SAME SET??? PLEASE!!!!
I'm sure the rest of the set made up for it, but I don't want to ever see any of those songs again, ever. Don't even talk to me about Casey Jones. ewwhhee

That'll teach them Pennsylvanians not to buy enough tickets.


Glad to see you other people flaming this one....


>>>get the discs to this show

Yeah, right. I still haven't taken last year's Camden out of the package......


>>>>When will those negative people(clearly not phans) get it? It's not what they play, but how they play. That negativity is exactly IMHO what held back the Dead, especially toward the end and will ruinthe good vibes Phil is trying to propagate.


1. Being 'negative' does not mean you are not a 'phan'. That's just absurd. Didn't you ever bitch about your favorite sports team? Does that mean you're not a fan????????

2. It IS not only HOW they play, but WHAT. Tell me a good Dire Wolf is in the same class as an average Dark Star. I'm still trying to stop laughing at the guy who told me that Sunday....

3. What held back the Dead, especially in later years was not 'negativity', it was JERRY, & his being jonsed out.

Tons of Steel is a great tune-- great lyrics--and Warren really does it justice!! Hey Jonny --check out the 12/31/01 Tons of Steel in the Viola sandwich - it rocks -- i think you'll like that one. I'm sorry I got lazy and didn't make the drive from Phil-ly. East Coast rocks!! Where else can you hit like 10 shows all within a 4 hour drive!! See y'all in lovely Camden on Saturday!!

Somebody told you that a good "Dire Wolf" is in the same class as an average "Dark Star"?!

AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Nowwwww...THAT'S funny!!!

12/31 isn't bad, but the Asbury Viola sandwich is better, and last nights Steel was as good as it gets...I never get enough of that tune, or Passenger, or any of the other truly testosterone based tunes they do so well.

Bucky, cant you leave Darkstar out of one thread? And, I am so glad you liked the Beach. Kickass show for sure...

I'm still trying to get SJF to forgive me for mentioning Tons Of Steel on the way to Oakdale last fall.

"Now you went & cursed us by saying it - now they're gonna play it."

They did.

Yeah, wonderful tune.
Gee, I wish they played it instead of Unbroken Chain on Sunday.........


Key, yeah, Mr X was saying that in the lot.
Funny, we also were mentioning the letdown after Scarlet when they (Dead or P&F) start Fire On The Mt.
"It could be worse" I said. "Once Phil did Scarlet > Dire Wolf."
We had a good laugh over that.
Then, Phil does it again the next day......

>>>PASSENGER, BUILT TO LAST, TON'S OF STEEL???
ALL IN THE SAME SET??? PLEASE!!!!<<<

I'd take a "Passenger" instead of every "Celebration" and "Night of a 1000 Stars" any time; yes, twice in the same set, easily.

Looks like the There and Back Again journey is pleasing the faithful night after night, which is great to see after the lackluster single set shows at the beginning of this tour.

Just got back home from last night...
the energy was fantastic!
Highlights for me were Scarlet, Rain & Snow
and Golden Road.
The venue was beautiful...and the local bar
Farley's around the corner kept our palette
wet before the show.
4 down and 4 more to go!

>>>4 down and 4 more to go!

way to rub it in! i'm at 3 down and 1 to go. glad i could make that though. just got done bookin the room in hershey. now if i could only find a damn kennel for the pup...

It keeps getting better! It's pointless for me trying to compare it or rate against hte other 3 shows I've seen on this tour so far but it was great. Each show is unique and great. For me though, this show wsa more about the JAMS than the actual songs.

Fist off. In the morning after getting back from the great Jones Beach show the night before, my friend calls me and says it seemed my chances for getting a ticket seemed pretty hopeless since it had been moved to such a tiny place (I'm the kinda guy who'll usually try to get discount tix in the lot knowing that most shows on the tour aren't going to sell out and a few people ALWAYS have extras)Not getting an advance ticket has always worked fine for me in the past. But I was just about to accept the fact that tonight I was gonna learn my lesson and get shut out of he most intimate show on the tour when my friend calls back and says he got a FREE ticket for me (thanks greg in Lansdale!)So I got super excited and didn't even take the much needed nap i needed after Sunday's dancefest.

Knowing that the venue was small, I was still impressed by it. It fest like they were playing in a small high school gym or at an Elks Lodge. And no big corporate banners (although there were still $5 beers and $3 waters...grrrr) Security wsa really cool insides and out not bothering vendors and not being brutal on the patdown.

I caught Robert Hunter's last few songs. I was surprised at how low the PA was for him. With everyone chattering, he sounded like background music. Still he got a warm response though I think most people listen out of novelty vaule that really appreciating his musicianship. He can be vocally impressive when he gets worked up but he's uneven. He bucks the Grateful Dead trend in that he sounds better on record than live (check out his solo acoustic Terrapin from Jack O Roses, it'll give you chills.)

While the venue was hot and crowded I found some decent dancing space with like-minded folks a little to the right of center near Warren.
The crowd was so pumped with everyone in disbelief at the tiny venue that "Bird Song' seemed kind of a downer for an opener Great song but I was ready for "Help>Slip" or a Shakedown or Dancin opener. No real complaints though. It seemed to take Warren a while to adjust to the heat for the opening jam and Birdsong he seemed to be toweling down and wiping sweat off and fiddling with nobs more than he wsa playing But this gave Jimmy a chance to shine. It seems Jimmy is a whole lot louder in the mix this year and is taking more leads. Maybe phil is pushing him in prepartion for the Other Ones show. During the song a kid next to me was totally in heaven singig along atthe top of his lungs of course he was getting the timing of the words all wrong (he was singing it with Garcia's phrasing while Phil was pacing the words a lot differntly) so it wsa pretty annoying. I just hope it wasn't loud enough to make it onto the tapes. I was suprising by Phil's choppy repetition of "I'll show you...snow and rain" at the end of the song (does he usually do this?) anyway i thouhg he might be setting up an immediate segue into Cold Rain and Snow (which i thought would've been great) but instead we got more jamming that got really intense for a couple minutes before going into into another relatively mellow song "Midnight Train," It featured some great leads and I love the song but it seemed like they should really play a rocker or they'd start losing the crowd.
The obliged with a fantastic Scarlet that had my section dancing and singing along. Phil sounds great singing this one to my ears! I thought going into "Fire" would be a great move given the extreme heat of the venue but the jam lead into a fun Dire Wolf. Never much jamming but always bouncy and welcome. And I like the short compact songs thrown i to offset the deep melt jams.
After the song, during a pause, Rob acknowledged the heat of the venue by saying "Welcome to the Scranton Swrat Lodge!" The band stopped more than he usually do I think because htey couldn't take the heat and the sweat. But hey they're are a bunch of old men susecptible to heat stroke (hah hah) A good Real Thing followed with some impsasioned singing by Warren but no real jamming. But the jam came for the montrous Cold Rain and Snow! It featured amazing duel leads by Jimmy and Warren. And being my first P&F version I enjoyed hearing how Phil twistedthe words to make the song an upbeat tribute to his Wife. The ending jam was intense and then bam! the break.
Over all perhaps a little mellow of a set formy taste but there were intense moments and with the heat you couldn't expect 70 minutes of intensity from the boys.

I was happy security let folks stand outside and get a little fresh air. The break seemed longer than usual but it gave everybody a chance to cool down and rest. Everyone seemed to comment on how the water lines were 4 times as long as the beer lines in reverse of the usual.

Everyone has said that the opening jam had a big Cumberland tease but to me if felt more like a Sitiin' on Top of the World tease. While I'm not too familiar with the P&F version of SOTOTW, the song seems to have the same country breakdown intensity of Cumberland. The opening jam featured that intensity but not the booming bass htat's indictive of Cumbreland. So my call wouldbe to list it as a SOTOTW jam. Anyway it was intense fun. Then they dhifted gears and pumped out a wonderfully rockin' Passenger that had me jumping up and down (sorry to the folks around me if I stepped on your toes) the following Built to Last was very welcome. It was a good song to sway to with a smile on my face. The song seems to be about deceased rockers and of course it makes me thing of senor Garcia. With no jam this lead into Tons of Steel. Another fun one and it seemed a big nostalgia trip for the crowd who looked (by the age of them) to be 'Heads who got into the Dead during the In the Dark era. I expected Casey Jones to follow (since they sem to like the combo and thematically it makes sense) but the jam betwen the songs wsa a highlight forme. It featured Loose Lucy and SOTOTW teases and hte CAsey Jones the did follow wsa intense. I've seen them do the accelerondo atthe end before but it reached heights I'd never heard before tonight.
Then another break. Rob seemed really happy and was counting off something I heard Warren do a little "Hlp" tuning so i was sure it'd either be Help on the Way or "Leave Me Out of This" I was jonesin' for "Help" and I got it. The Slipknot>jam was great and stayed cohesive without spacing out too much. The jam into GoldenRoad was sweet and I was jumping around again. I think I bumped too much into the guy next to be. He slapped me in the chest and yelled "Back off" in a reptiliam Gollum-like voice which frightened me. He wsa barely moving and looked like he was about to keel over so who knows what he had taken. I wanted to tell him he just had to politely sak me to chill out but he didn't seem to be in a state to listen to reason.
I was surprised when they did a good long jam at the end of Golden Road before hitting the closing bit. The sequence as great but I was hoping for a straight up H>S>F since I've never actually seen the Dead of any cover bands do it (though I've seen bands play Help>Slip>Follish Heart and Help>Slip>Love the One Your With) I expected and got Franklins as an encore so I was happy in the end. Security didn't chase us away or try to stop the sidewalk vending afterwards so thenight ended on a high note. A great show, a great sweaty venue and a fine night! Whose got thee discs?

>>>3. What held back the Dead, especially in later years was not 'negativity', it was JERRY, & his being jonsed out.<<<

Go easy on Jerry, Bucky. The negativity had more to do with poor old Jerry's inability to keep his damned wife off-tour. Debra Koons killed the magic. Jerry was a highly functional addict. It was the pressure to kick the habit that killed him, not the habit itself. That bitch.

I agree about Asbury but come on Dew!! 12/31/01 is better than "isn't bad"! The Viola>Tons>Viola>Fantasy>Viola>Cosmic Charlie was some fun funky chunky stuff. Maybe i just get too geared up when Warren is hitting the vocals with extra power. And, he was sooo soulful during that Fantasy "all these yeeeaarrs.........". As far as Tons of Steel, lots of sentimental meaning "she's more a rollercoaster than the train I used to know..." and "done bout everything but try draggin' my feet". Special meanings that no one can take away . To each his own!! Glad everyone had fun. Peace

Despite being 125 degrees inside, the place had a great vibe - "hardcore" is a good choice of words from a previous post. The Birdsong was fantastic and the Cold Rain was, for me, the highlight of the evening.

Does Phil usually change the "she" to "he" in Birdsong?

I made the trek after not paying enough attention to the 2nd set on Friday night - which everybody pretty much agrees was off the charts. I figured I'd make amends and drive the 2 hrs to the Masonic Temple - which is a terrific venue. Seeing music indoors with light streaming in from the windows reminded me of the last indoor shows at Albany.

I was never a big Brent fan, but last night's Tons of Steel was fun. Sure, I'd rather hear Dark Star, but you take what you get, and the band gave well. If they had only played the Cumberland. Hopefully they'll save it for Saturday.

You could not hear Hunter very well unless you were in the balcony or the first 5 "rows ", but thankfully that changed for PLQ.

Looking forward to Camden.

>>>Does Phil usually change the "she" to "he" in Birdsong?<<<

It's a Jerry thing.

Tim I must disagree with you.Being a recovering addict i know,dope can make you vary cranky,disconected to the world around you.And Debra was only there for 2 or 3 years.The functioning years were in the 80's.Jerry him self wanted to get off the shit,and th WHOLE family wanted him off.In 85 they gave him the option to chose the band or the drugs.Like most addicts its a love hate relationship with the drugs,jerry said something like "it just you and the drugs in the end".They stop being fun,and become a need.I loved Jerry,but the last years his health made it hard to listen for me.Even if Debra was not there his body would have givin out,to many years of smoking,and bad diet.Just my 2 cents.

Dewit and Sebastian: you rock! Thanks for the gooey details that'll tide me over til Austin.

Right on about the "snow and rain" line in Bird Song as a foreshadow to Cold Rain and Snow. And right on about the change of tone in CR&S indicating a tribute to his wife (vs. Jerry's disillusionment)... combine those with Built to Last, Help on the Way(a very romantic song) and Evan's comments on Tons of Steel...and this show reads like a tribute to enduring love/marriage.

Gotta love that!

Why did I get flamed for saying I don't want to hear certain songs anymore???? Most of the second set just doesn't look good to me on paper.

How's this????????

I'd rather go see a phil show with them playing all of the songs I never want to hear again OR a bad overall performance, then do anything else in the planet.

Maybe I should have stated that upfront.

Rock on my friends!

Randy, I hear you brother. It seems that everything I put in my body is gonna kill me eventually; bad food and good dope, ya know. A functioning addict needs his shit just to get normal; it's not about a party. But when Jerry got busted freebasing speedballs in Golden Gate Park in 1985, he had to go through a rehab fabrication to expunge his record. I know for a fact that he never gave up the blow, never ever. The band was not going to terminate Jerry, regardless of his habit. I'm not sure how the heroin thing became so overwhelming, but evidently he attempted to do something about it and he ended up dead in a cozy rehab in Novato. Doesn't one normally become "cranky" when you can't score your poison? Jerry was always good to go. You're right dude, nobody, including Jerry, likes being a junkie, period.

>Why did I get flamed for saying I don't want to hear certain songs anymore???? Most of the
second set just doesn't look good to me on paper.


Though I agree with you, many here think that whatever fart it is that comes out of Phil's ass, it smells like ice cream.

Tim, there is a clear dividing line in the Dead's level of play IMHO: 2/78.

Before that, they're constantly intense & constantly changing format.

After that, it's the same ole same ole: 2 sets, drums in the middle of set II. Good shows, great moments. Bad shows, terrible moments; continuing on a usually downward spiral (yeah, I know about 1980-81 & 1990-91).

What event in Jerry's life coincides with this marked decline?
The beginning of his use of heroin.......

Jerry was the reason the Dead declined - listen to P&F now & Phil's playing compared to say, 1988, let alone 1994.

Jerry was responsable for Jerry's drug use. Not his wife, not us terrible 'negative vibing' Deadheads.


>>>>While I'm not too familiar with the P&F version of
SOTOTW, the song seems to have the same country breakdown intensity of Cumberland.

Yeah, the main difference:

SOTOTW: 4 minutes.
Cumberland: 15 minutes.

I'll take another Cumberland, please......

Sebastian -
Thanks to Gary in Lansdowne, not Greg in Lansdale...minor note, but have to give the right guy props eh!
Thanks for your expert in-depth analysis!

DONT MURDER ME !!


SEE THAT GIRL BAREFOOT AND NO BRA !!!!!

thanks also to the crew for tossing out free sodas and water to the crowd during set break!

>>>(yeah, I know about 1980-81 & 1990-91)<<<
Don't forget 1983-85, highly formatted but often magical.

Re: The 2/78 dividing line...you may be right, but 17 years of heroin use may have slowed the problem of becoming too big and too corporate, which ultimately clouded our scene.

Say for instance, if this P&F unit remained intact for another 10 years, would any P&F show then be favorably comparable to any "average" 2001 show? I doubt it. Playing a guitar is a physical drain, not to mention the emotion. I'll be lucky to be able to walk by the time I reach 53.

Re: The 2/78 dividing line...just an opinion but I think they were pretty hot through about '80-'81. Jerry voice is a key indicator and that's about when it starts to break down (from smoking?).

I love the guitar playing in fall '78 and '79 -'80, although the sets were starting to get "formatted."

I liked Jerry's *grainy* voice; back then, it began to match his hair and his guitar work speaks for itself. As for being predictably unpredictable, nothing else back then could even be compared to the Grateful Dead era, a band beyond description.

I've seen Phil and Friends 61 Times, Frome the Warfield shows with Trey and Page to yesterday at Scranton. I've literally seen this band evolve from Grateful Dead nastolgia to a life force all to its own. The music which these guys produce is out of this world, probobly the best in the business today, but, the edge (sorry to say) has been completely lost!!!!!!! What made the Grateful Dead so wonderful was the outlaw aspect, the Great American adventure. You could tour the country with the Dead and litterally be living the songs. The Grateful Dead had a sunny side, but they also had a very important dark side that appealed to many fans such as myself. And by Dark I do not mean spacy. Not only did they have a dark side, but they had a very important American folk, working class, gambling, religious, and outlaw side to them as well. I've seen Phil Lesh and Friends fuse these ideas only 5 of the 61 times I've seen them: New Years 2000, 4:20 at Charlotte North Carolina, Last summer at Hershey Park, Wednesday at the Beacon Theatre last fall tour, and Tuesday night at the Beacon 2 years ago with the Jeff Pevar Lineup when Haynes Came out for the entire second set during the fall. I have to say that's it. With no offence to the female gender whatsoever, I'm really sick of all of these girly setlist. I don't understand why the bomb concert is defined by a Scarlet, Unbroken Chain, Eyes of The World, or Help>Slip>Franklins. (Believe me I know I'm stepping on a lot of toes) Phil brings in Warren Haynes, a bad ass mofo From the Gov't Mule to sing all the new tunes and Golden Road? I got nothing against the new tunes, believe me, I actually like all of them, but what I don't like is the fact that they play Night of a Thousand stars at PNC and Jones Beach, and The Real Thing/Midnight Train/Dire Wolf/Cold Rain and Snow(Even though I love the crap out of it)/and Scarlet at Scranton and Pittsburg. Phil and Friends have a massive song list they can choose from, and for a head who looks foward to attending tour all year long, the elixer is not being delivered. Why would you tease Cumberland and Loose Lucy for Passenger and Casey Jones when they playeded both those songs at Darien Lake. Let me refrase that, if the theme of the show is a Train type show, why would you play Scarlet, or Dire Wolf. I just don't Get it. What Happened to The Weight, Standing on the Moon Comes a Time, New Speedway Boogie, Tomb Thumb. Why can't they play songs like High Time, Althea, So Many Roads, Touch of Grey, Loser, Good Times, Gloria, Takes a lot to Laugh Takes a Train To Cry, Easy Wind, Deep Ellen Blues, He's Gone or Don't Ease Me In. Every show has to be relationship orientated, and lovey Dovey. What Happened to the badass outlaws? Does one really have to go to a ratdog show to hear the lyrics that make the hairs stand up on the back of your neck? Why is it impossible to combine the two? Jerry Garcia is long gone, and that affects everybody. I miss his music, his smile, and the devil/saint paradox which he represented. Everybody who attends these Phil Lesh/Ratdog/Other Ones concerts is there to celebrate the Music and Culture which the Grateful Dead Created. I'm not asking them to recreate it by any means. Phil Lesh has his own style, and it is incredible. What I'm saying I guess is... PLEASE STOP BEING SO DAMN GIRLY. Thank you for letting me vent.

A very cool place.......but very, very hot. A nice change after the one set shows at Summerfest and the Blossom. I had a feeling we might have another Richmond and run out of water. It wasn't always cold but you could still get some right up until the end. For the most part every one was kind. Very remarkable for as crowded and hot as it was.

Dew I hope one day our paths will cross so I can say Hi.

Lyrics?
Who gives a DAMN 'bout the LYRICS?
It's the JAM, Michael...its all about the JAM!
As long as these guys can deliver THAT...AND, such as Sunday, within a "Cryptical">"The Other One">"St. Stephen">"Cryptical"...that works for me.
Keep your "Althea's"...your "So Many Roads", your "Touch of Grays'", et al.
Gimme "Dark Star"..."St. Stephen"..."The Eleven"..."The Other One" (preferably WITH "Cryptical")..."Help">"Slip">"Franklins"..."Viola", etc...and ALL the JAMMIN' that goes WITHIN, OUTSIDE, and AROUND these pieces of music, with THESE TWO Guitarist EXTRAORDINAIRES'!
I got a lyric for ya...
"One man gathers what another man spills".
Go see Ratdog, that's one extra ticket available for US.

shoot. i realized my long review has a lot of typos in it. I typed it in a rush and then had to run out so I didn't proofread it. And now it's been up for way over 30 minutes so I can't edit it. I could cut and paste it as a new post but that might just be annoying. I'll do it though if anyone wants me to. Sorry, I hope the review makes sense. I believe in quality control and I guess I let one slip by.

By the way, it was great meeting Gentle Ben and MDAUB at the show even though I was awkward and shy and didn't have much to say.

I have a friend who says that it doesn't matter what they play, but how, and while I hear what he's saying, at the same time, I think to myself, "Well if it was the Dead playing, would he say it makes no difference whether they play the Eleven or Picasso Moon?" Something tells me he'd want to hear the Eleven.

So while the performance is key, obviously, setlist DOES matter.

Don

Don, i think it's all about balance with both song selection and performance. For example, I've heard a few really hot Piccaso Moon's with the Dead but the way the Eleven is structured, it just lends itself to more intense jams. Every now and then the Dead would surprise you and pull a hot version of a song that was usually just average. Phil and Friends do the same. And some songs that the Dead played pretty straightforward open up as jam fests with Phil (examples Just a Little Light, Cold Rain and Snow, and Cumberland) Sure some songs lend themselves more to jamming (Dark Star as opposed to Dire Wolf) but since P&F don't follow much by way of formulas it wouldn't surprise me if we get a 20minute intense meltdown version of Dire Wolf one of these days. Sure song selection matters but with the amount of jamming in volved here, a PLQ setlist can tell you virtually nothing. Just my view of it.

set lists these days read like recipes...
ok...I LIKE that kind of cookie
and I'm glad they threw THAT in for flavah
but you never know until you taste it.

You might think you would HATE it....and it turns out the combo is surprisingly delectable. Or you normally like it, but that night one ingredient was just a little OFF....

so read me the Betty Crocker. I like almonds and choc chips. Orange can be used sparingly...hee hee
but for a real Point Of View...I need first hand primary source. How did it TASTE to you?

very well said Huck, and i can't eat pizza every night.....

Key, you're getting soft. That Jones Beach show would have been really happening if they'd have played a first set closing H>S>F. Slowly and surely, P&F is settling into the traditional GD style of putting out decent 1st sets and huge 2nd sets, with only the occasional big encore.

Well, the guy DID play in The Dead for THIRTY YEARS.
Old habits are hard to break.
But, if they keep crankin' out 2nd Sets like the Friday Night at The Vibes, or the one Sunday Night, thats fine by me.
Its when The Dead DIDN'T produce in the 2nd Set that always bothered me, and that happened PLENTY.
A killer 1st Set is all well and good...but it MUST be coupled with an even STRONGER 2nd Set.
If that doesn't happen, then the energy fizzles way too early.
As long as P&F's SECOND SETS are what they've been...that'll be fine, good 1st Set, or not.
Its not how you start...but HOW STRONG you finish, that makes the difference.

Case in point:
Look at every Boston Red Sox Season since 1918...including the present one.
Look how they started this year, our Phriends in Bahstan were damn near CLIMAXING.."We're 25-7...look at us".
Yeah...look.
Look where they are NOW.
Sorry Cryp, Bosphan, Fritz...its TOO GOOD an analogy not to make.

to each his own.
opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.
I thought the second night of the vibes had twice the energy than the first night. But that's just my opinion.

Sorry Key, the Red Sox could go 162-0 & these guys (the fans) would expect to be beaten in the first round of the playoffs.......

Now, a question for Don Corleone:
Was that you guys stopped in the rest area with the Mobil station in the middle of the road on The Hutch just over the NY border?

This couple, he in tie dye, gets out of the limo doing the waltz.....


And, onto the serious bizness:

>>>>>Why did I get flamed for saying I don't want to hear certain songs anymore???? Most of the
second set just doesn't look good to me on paper.


Though I agree with you, many here think that whatever fart it is that comes out of Phil's ass, it smells like ice cream.

- Cryptical

No wonder I love this guy.
I couldn't have said it better myself.......

>Look where they are NOW.


Look where my foot is!

In your ASS!

Keyshawn Still Sux:

If you think the lyrics and song selection have nothing to do with it, you obviously never saw the dead from 1980-1995. You know who opened for Phil Last night? Thats right, Robert Hunter. Although the only song you probobly cared for was Scarlet. Some of us grew up loving Bob Dylan and not Phish or the "Cheese," and we are being left out. The Jammings great, but there is no balance.

Friush:

Keyshawn's old enough to be your father......

BTW, Bob Dylan:
Great songwriter, terrible performer.

I can't think of one of his songs somebody covered where they didn't do it better.

Best thing Phil ever did was get away from touring with him......

Michael Fishman--interesting vent, brother.

Though I like nothing more than getting lost in the epic jams (keyshawn!) I'm more on your side of the fence, in that I pay attention to the story being told, (show) which is an accumulation of all of the little stories (songs) being told. Which is why I find set-list arguements so frustrating--like telling Flannery O Connor she got the middle three pages of Chapter Two all wrong. Regarding Outlaw songs, consider this....
1. Phils a grandpa now, not an outlaw anymore. (okay,pa) Hes feeling reflective and grateful, not alienated and embittered.
2.Song repetoire does seem to be shrinking--but with the heavy travel and tour schedule and heat, I bet they're cutting rehearsals short.
3.Phil is madly in love with his wife, and seems set on telling the world that.
4. Musical intensity of P&F makes up for bad boy lyrics you miss. Sebastian is right about Cold Rain...much grittier than Dead's...same
goes for Sugaree and many others.
5. Thanks for reminding us all that this used to be a biker band.
6. You forgot to mention Loser!

I would have to say that Dylan is performing at a high level right now and has been for a while.

SHUT UP EVAN!!!!!!!
still love ya, even though....

one love

Play nice Zoners...negative karma could bring a Candyman opener in Hartford.

Scranton Sucks! All of the years, all of the cities, all of the venues, this place sucks. Everytime there is a show there the managment oversells the show and creates a superhot oven for the people. I myself can deal with, perhaps, any environment. But I saw many, many people adversely effected by the heat and overcrowdedness. This show should have remained at it's original venue. More of the mass of heads that were unable to obtain a ticket could have got in to see the show. The temperature would have been alot cooler and the people would have had more room to shake their boogie. The show was solid and the energy was fairly high. I hope to see you all in Hershey and Camden where the dancing and breathing will be easier. I need a Tennessee Jed to heal me, I'm pulling for it! Love ya"ll!

Mr. Fishman, the thing to remember is that Phil is doing this for himself, not us, and he will do what he wants. I'd like to see more varied set lists also, but Phil is playing what he wants to play and it's a take it or leave it proposition. Compared to Dead sets from the late 70's onward this is a totally wide open scene as far as set lists go, even now that he's trimmed the song selction down a bit. And any night he can break out that New Potato or Attics or Comes a Time or whatever. I came to the conclusion long ago that if you're going to tour more the 15-20 shows a year you run the risk of being dissapointed with a lot of the shows, or at least being frustrated by repeats, so if you're going to tour all year and see as many shows as you have you need to decide to put up with it or stop going so much, because Phil's gonna do what he wants regardless of what any of us want. The last three shows I've seen (4/4, 4/5, and 7/12) have all blown me away and had great set lists, but I space them out on purpose to increase the chances of getting the ones I'll like. Choose wisely.

No one mentioned 3 of the first 4 songs of the 2nd set were about trains - appropriate considering Scranton is home to Steamtown USA (any hardcore railfan will tell you that Steamtown was concieved and is run by commercial, corrupt, political fatcats who care little for history or authenticity, and takes gov't money away from REAL railfan organizations such as Danbury, Naugatuck, and Willimantic CT have). I will say these oddball venues are the best to see Phil in, far better than sterile Tweeter whatever amphitheatres (kind of like Steamtown compared to a railfan club). The heat certainly had a lot to do with the shortness of the show (1st set 70', 2nd set + enc 73'). It got off to a great start - the mellow, dark mood keeping the crowd still to keep the heat level down. The smallness of the venue and the wild paintings on the ceiling of Mason symbology, dragons, lions, whales, monsters, etc., made for an even more surreal surrounding. The vastly improved sound again came through in spades, I was wondering how deep Phil could mine the Pennsylvania rocks. It's just too bad the show/setlist quality is getting so Grateful-Dead-Ish now. You take what little sloppy seconds are dished out and make the most of them. Maybe the standards they set last year were just too impossibly high to sustain. (I will disagree with Bucky here in that I thought the fall tour was equal to the summer). One special song would have been nice, made up for taking the time off, enduring the heat, sweat, stench, picking up the inevitable tour flu, etc. By the way, if they wanted to encourage people to go to the weekday shows (I heard they lost money on this gig), you would think they would play well at them, or at least play 1 or 2 special songs. After Toronto, Darien Lk, and now Scranton, I certainly am not very motivated to go to out of the way places anymore, especially in the summer, and especially at amphitheatres. Pittsburgh was a nice venue and decent show, though. All you weekend warriors have lucked out big time this tour, so far at least.

Do Phil's farts really smell like ice cream?

After the show in Vegas the roadies handed out computer print-outs of the set list. (I got me a Herring pick instead) Big bold type, all the songs, exactly as they appear here on the Zone.

Don't people realize Phil comes up with this stuff BEFORE the show? His vision and intent (both music and lyrics) with that particular song selection on that particular night--even if they're not the songs i'd "like" to hear, hell, especially if they're not favorites or obvious choices--is an artform in itself. It's what I find interesting in a novel or film, or set list--looking at the ARTIST'S INTENT, not my cute little top ten list of sentimental favorites. Are lyrics/songs more important than jams/ transitions? Both, equally, because that show will never be duplicated again.(Though Sideshow and his minions have a point--they're telling fewer types of stories now, but nowhere nearly as limited as late Dead.) My (sorry, somewhat condescending) point: try to meet the band halfway...turn off your mind, relax and float downstream.

The most disturbing part is, yes, they DO decide the list in advance. Was the Tomorrow Never Knows tease at Darien on the list? My agitation after Scranton went thru the roof when I saw the setlist Candace had given my friend. I had been trying really hard to enjoy whatever they played during the time they were playing it. After it was over and the reality set in, THEN I was pissed! That has been my pattern since PLQ started playing. In the GD days I had a bad attitude from the first note ("this show is going to suck"). Now I root for every show every night from the first note, "in the moment" for every note up until they take their instruments off after the encore, hoping for THE SHIT. Only when its over do I think back or look at the timings or lists, etc. I think the whales on the ceiling sticking their tongues out at me were channeling messages to me. So were the monsters, dragons and lions. By the way, this venue reminded me of the Simpsons episode where Homer joins the Stonecutters (the secret Mason-like society that rules the world). The hall Homer falls through the skylight into is exactly where Phil played - the building looks like it on the outside and everything! Only the skylight was missing!

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!

>>>>>>>>>appropriate considering Scranton is home to Steamtown USA

Could be the fact that they stayed in a train station hotel the night before.....

If the setlists are suffering it is not from a Lack-a-wanna trying.....

Ba-dabumb chisssssssss thank you thank you I'll be here all week ...two shows on friday.

See Michael..ya gotta read closer.
I never said SONG SELECTION means nothing...I said the actual LYRICS mean nothing to me.
The songs I mentioned "Dark Star"..."The Eleven"..."The Other One"..."Viola"..."St. Stephen"..."Help">"Slip">"Franklins"...all are PREFERRED by ME...but NOT because of the LYRICS...its because they lend themselves BETTER to JAMMIN' than the "Altheas"...the "Touch of Grays"...the "So Many Roads'. and the like that you apparently are yearning for.
I'm in it for the JAM...NOT the words.
And as far as never seeing The Dead between '80 and '95, well, the "FIRST TIME" (of 3, I subseguently went back to attending shows twice more, finally coming to the sad realization on September 20, 1993 at Madison Square Garden, that they were now, or more accurately, THEN, a mere CARICATURE of themselves) that I RETIRED from going to Dead shows was October 15, 1984 in the Hartford Civic Center.
I've PAID MY DUES with all the "Altheas"..."Lost Sailor">"Saints"..."Touch of Grays" (saw THAT for the first time on September 20, 1982, at MSG as the Encore, only FIVE DAYS AFTER they DEBUTED it...a FULL FIVE YEARS before the Album came out) and the like that I can stomach.
So, if you really think I never saw The Dead in the era which you refer to, think again.
I was there.
Plenty.
Now...PLAY ME THE JAMMIN' MATERIAL.

And Michael...for the record...my 42nd Birthday is 2 weeks from tomorrow, and the only "Fish" I know I order at "Captain's Galley" (a Seafood Restaurant near my home), and the only "Cheese" I like is on the Pizza I order before the Jets games.

Man, Key musta spent a half hour reading the old copy of Deadbase I gave him.

After 15 White Castles on Sunday night, I know WHERE he did his studying.......


>>>I pay attention to the story being told, (show) which is an accumulation of all of the little stories (songs) being told.

OK, what was the theme or story being told at Scranton?
How about Sunday at JB?
New Year's Eve?
How about each night at GOTV?
Oakdale 11-20-01?

Help me out here.......

BTW, the 'printout' lists are not the same ones posted here.
I've seen them -and all they do is list the songs, not jams - or they did every time I've seen one.
For example, 10-14-00 didn't have St Stephen down twice, just St Stephen then The Eleven, but at the show, they split St Stephen with the 11. Also, it had Like A Rolling Stone for the encore & they played Casey Jones......

The lists posted here are (at times) full of little 'jams' (really teases) that may or may not be included with no 'set' rule, & inaccuracies that come from Joe Deadhead phoning in a list from Sheboygen, Wisconsin (i.e., Jerkwater, USA).....
Like 4-13-01. They don't end with TOO, they go back into Celebration.
The next night, they do not do 'Uncle John's Reprise', they slowly noodle around with the theme for 30 seconds.
I'm still listening/looking for ONE note of 'Blue Train' in last year's Jones Beach China Rider.

Oh, yeah:

Sideshow is right on the $$$ with the comments about the setlists on weekdays vs weekends......

Until Hartford I hope......

listen again bucky its there

>>Bob Dylan: great songwriter, terrible performer.

You shouldn't go there. The voice is gone, but the live show is acknowledged worldwide for its jamming. And its killer acoustic set. Not in the P&F league, but a bunch of pretty good musicians (except for Dylan on electric).

Glad he's not on the P&F bill, but I'd go see him.

>>I can't think of one of his songs somebody covered where they didn't do it better.

I'll give you one that might surprise you.

All Along The Watchtower, off of JWH.

Yup, the original is still the best.

Same with the Blood On The Tracks material. (Although I would take a 15 minute JGB version of Tangled Up...)

And I believe the pedal steel guy's name is "Bucky."

Or used to be at least.

that 2/78 dividing line is silly for the simple fact that jerry was rocking AND rolling in the 80's and 90's, especially with his many incarnations of the jerry band and/or garcia/grisham. if any of you caught a jerry band show, you would know that it wasn't the heroin that slowed jerry down or killed the dead...

it was and will always be bobby's fault for sucking it up so much and ruining it for everyone!!! (i say this with a smile)

Phil makes up the set lists before the show so the guys in the band who have not played these songs for 30 years can get the sheet music and lyric sheets in order. You notice they do use music stands on stage. In the day, Jerry used teleprompters to give him lyrics. For Phil, The jams are totally winged but the general order is laid out - form, function and freedom to jam - the best of all worlds from the best jamband out there today!!

Now hold on just a minute there, Buckaroo!
I remember Monday September 20, 1982 quite clearly, as across the River, the Packers were playin' the Giants on Monday Night Football, and immediately after that game ended, the NFL Players Association went out on strike.
There were only 9 Regular Season games played that year, and the Jets ALMOST went to the Super Bowl.
F**k A.J. Duhe!
F**k 'im in the ear!

Bucky Baxter no longer plays for Bob Dylan.

>>I can't think of one of his songs somebody covered where they didn't do it better.

To each his own. Dylan's had a great band for the last 5 or 6 years (with some shuffling of members). Like PLQ, some of the stuff is fantastic, and some is unlistenable. Thank God for the chance to see either.

show rocked. the energy was there...the only problem was the heat....ROCKED!

Don’t judge this show by it’s setlist. It was hot. The venue was so beautiful and spiritual feeling, and if you poked around, you could find somewhere in there that wasn’t like a sardine can. The band was tight. Even the Tons>casey was pretty enjoyable. It wasn’t the most jammed out show, but it was probably my second favorite this summer. (behind manfield, maybe tied with pitt or jones).
The big problem I had with last night, was the violence and hard core drugs. There are way too many schwag kids on tour. I saw more heroin in the last week than I have in my previous 27 years of existence. I know of at least 3 od’s (one kid is probably dead, last I heard they wanted to pull the plug in the hospital)
At scranton, bottles were flying before and after the show. I saw 3 fights last night (and at least one at every other venue). What was the biggest shame, is there were basically no cops or security last night until about 1 am. They weren’t even asking us to leave until the fights broke out. Assholes are fucking up this tour big time. Scranton should have been the perfect scene.
The opiates have to get the fuck off the lot. Fuck K. Fuck pharmies. Fuck Nitrous.

There should not be a market for heroin on tour. DON'T buy it. Don't buy it bc someone told you it is x. I don't think K is really very cool either; who wants to do a drug that sends you into a freaking "K hole"? what's up with that????

But "kids" will always be on tour looking for illicit buzz. But now, through ignorance, desperation and stupidity...people are abusing bad things. Watch yr stuff....please....there is too much other crap out there that can hurt you....Be INFORMED

http://www.dancesafe.org/labtesting/

(And Muad....any more shows for you? Hershey? It'd be a pleasure to shake yr hand...)

Yeah, I'll be at hershey. I'm pretty easy to find. On the lawn, somewhere where's there's a ton of room, usually dancing like a freak.
If you check my profile, I'm the one over to the left with the mr. potato head shirt on.

There's a market for heroin almost everywhere nowadays, especially any place where 'drugs' or 'partying' is considered an accepted thing, or part of the event.
Sorry, just the fact........

So Key can remember the football game that night in MSG?

Who was coaching?
Weeb Ewbank?

>>>listen again bucky its there (Blue Train).

OK, I'll bring the show on Thursday & you point it out to me. I've listened to it numerous times & I must be missing it every time......

>>>Play nice Zoners...negative karma could bring a Candyman opener in Hartford.

Touche.
You really know how to hurt a guy.......

Walt Michaels was the Jets Coach at the time.
Ray Perkins was the Giants Coach.
Bart Starr was the Packers Coach then.

And by the way...Weeb Ewbank is dead.

>>BTW, Bob Dylan:
Great songwriter, terrible performer.

Had to chime in here. Perhaps you forget your musical history, but Dylan launched his career and got his reputation as a performer. Sure his voice is somewhat shot from years of not taking great care of himself, but if you are a fan of Dyaln you can appreciate the way he performs his songs. He's not as good an all-around performer as say Declan McManus (Elvis Costello), Steve Winwood, or Beck, or as talented on a musical instrument as say Jerry Garcia, but I think Dylan is under-rated as an on-stage performer. I've seen him several times in recent years and he really does put out and has a great connection with his audience.

>>I can't think of one of his songs somebody covered where they didn't do it better.

You are obviously not a Bob Dylan fan.

Huck: Well, like I said in another thread, stuff sold as X might not always be X, but I doubt it's heroin. Check that website you listed. Of the hundreds of tested pills, none of 'em contained any heroin. That's just an ugly rumor that's going around.

Doesn't mean that they don't contain SOMETHING nasty. Ketamine's pretty ugly stuff. And a few of 'em contain amphetamines and such...

Don

Don. Look. I don't want to make Show Reviews the drug thread - BUT I feel it is important enough to focus on briefly bc people die from bad drugs. Go back to Erowid....read about Heroin. Try some of the first hand drug experiences. You'll find at least a couple talking about brown powder capsules. I don't want to ruin yr buzz; this is bc I have concern, right? (Oc I'm sure you know what I think about guinea pigging on strangers, but, hey...he took it, you didn't force him.)
And YES....there is lots of bad crap out there in the tablets. I don't encourage anyone to go out and buy random shit in the lot....but people will...so at least get on a handle on the pills out there that are really 80% (!!!!) ketamine....
Ok, lecture over...
(oh...yeah...Don....unless there's been some radical color change...Ecstasy is WHITE. CAREFUL.)

>>>>. Perhaps you forget your musical history, but Dylan launched his career and got his reputation as a performer

Just my opinion.
That's all everything is here: opinions.

Personally, I don't think he could EVER sing.

I guess I busted out before any ugliness started. Outside, after the show I only saw a happy crowd buying beer and burritos with no hassle from police or security.

Damn those drugs. Hurray for the Wharf Rats.

Huck: Again, I don't wanna argue the point either, and I know there's lots of bogus X out there, I'm just sayin' that's it's not likely to be heroin. That's a rumor that's been floating around the scene a lot and it has not been borne out by fact. Not trying to advocate people buyin' X at shows, cuz as I said, I'm really not that big a fan of it myself, but I think a little accuracy is important. It's these same kinds of out of control rumors that's led everybody and their brother to believe that there's strychnine in LSD, when that's just another urban legend. There's never been a dose that tested as having strychnine in it.

And I KNOW X is white, but look at that dancesafe website you pointed out. They have pictures of hundreds of different tablets and they're all different colors. Color doesn't mean anything. And again, the powder may very well be white. It looks like it's just the capsule itself that's yellowish/brownish.

Okay, new subject...

Don

Alright, I tried to refrain but I am unable to not throw my opinion in on this show. I won't deny that the heat and the over-packed nature of this venue had negative effects, but I still feel that the overall quality of the music was way below par. I completely disagree that the band ws "focused" and that the energy was high. On the contrary, my take is that the band was, for the most part, just not clicking. As a few have correctly pointed out, the set list was lacking in songs that are conducive to the jam so that certainly worked against those who see the improvisational side as the prime element in this band's list of attributes. But even the few relatively short jams were pretty much uninspired, in my opinion. After reading tales of doom and gloom about Scranton, I was happy to find a very festive and free scene outside and I went into this show in a positive frame of mind so I don't feel that I set myself up for disappointment. But by the time they dragged out "Tons of Steel" I was convinced that this was definitely an off night. Oh well, I thought that Holmdel was firing on all five cylinders and maybe steam power doesn't cut it for these guys. Hoping that a little Chocolate will sweeten things up Friday night!

>>>>. Perhaps you forget your musical history, but Dylan launched his career and got his reputation as a performer.

For varying values of "launched".

Dylan first appeared on the Minneapolis folk scene and bombed. People like Snaker Dave Ray and Spider John Koerner blew him off the stage. Then he moved to NYC, started writing his own stuff, and the rest is, as they say, history. Still wouldn't play the Twin Cities for many years after, though.

I'd put any of Dylan's live versions of Memphis Blues up against any of Weir's any time. Same goes for Phil's Tom Thumb for that matter. I'd also say that over the last decade, Dylan the performer has FAR outshined Dylan the songwriter.

And Bucky, I thought you always said '80 and '81 were better years for the Dead than '77. imo, it was health problems, not the junk per se, that slowed Jerry down in the later years. His worst health crises occurred during "clean" periods when he was compensating for the jones with too much Haagen Dazs and Pall Malls. H use contributed to an unhealthy lifestyle, no doubt, but the main problems were untreated diabetes and heart disease.

ZZW: have you listened to BD's last 2 studio albums?

>Do Phil's farts really smell like ice cream?

Yup
Kona told me so.

>>>>Dylan first appeared on the Minneapolis folk scene and bombed. People like Snaker Dave Ray and Spider John Koerner blew him off the stage.

Do I sense the time is ripe for a 'He-Man Dylan Hater's Club' Reunion?

We even dragged Zig-Zag back into the Zone.....


BTW, Snatch, you sound like you know what you're talking about....
Around here (or any Dead related site) it's blasphomy to refer to ANYTHING as less than awesome.
I can't wait for that incredible breakout of Don't Ease > Fart From Me......

>>At scranton, bottles were flying before and after the show. I saw 3 fights last night (and at least one at every other venue). What was the biggest shame, is there were basically no cops or security last night until about 1 am. They weren’t even asking us to leave until the fights broke out ????????????????
I`m speechless..................
I`m sorry but I`ve been going to shows for many years and never saw or heard of such a thing at a Dead related show...
(((((sad)))))

last night in scranton: in the lot after the show about 5 cops stood at the bottom of the ramp leading into the lot. some dude (who was obviously fucked up) threw and smashed a bottle on the ground about a foot from some chick w/ her baby in a stroller walking up the ramp. she said something along the lines of, " what the fuck-- i have a baby in this stroller..." and the dude just cursed at her and grabbed another bottle off the ledge and tried to smash it right in front of her, when someone pushed him away. then he came back at her w/ another bottle and smashed it on the ground right next to the stroller again. then somebody finally tackled that scumbag and knocked him down to the ground. that's when the cops came up and started kicking people out, i've also been to many shows, and i've never seen anything like it.
it was one of the most ridiculous things i have ever wittnessed

Sounds like someone seriously deprived of dopamine in their brain from too much x consumption. An all too common tragic condition I have witnessed repeatedly since the rise of x in the mid-'80's. It causes serious psychosis. A guy actually punched a hole in my vehicle for no reason at all in the lot after a show. At least strung out cokeheads either rob the quickie mart or hide under the bed from the green monsters stalking them. Call them a motivated bunch.

Earlier thread PLQ not dark: "but they also had a very important dark side that appealed to many fans such as myself"

"Welcome to the underground Leave your name on the other side. Do you feel at home, take a look around? Could you cut the throat of a neighbor? Take a good friend and chop him down. Welcome to the underground".

The Real Thing
"In some broken down dressing room. In some major city. The thunder plays an old familiar tune. He spies the face of a distant angel. Outside, beneath the halo moon. Finger on the trigger, needle in the vein One more bullet it might be your last ride. But this ain't no no-show, this ain't no nervous breakdown And it sure as hell ain't the time to let the fool decide"

Man if this sound too bright and cheery you may want to lower your dose of Prozac?

I will agree that the Dead had more diversity in the types of songs they selected (Cowboy songs, Rockers, Blues influenced, Zydeco, Good Ole fashioned Jams) but I would not necessarily say that made them any more creative or at times that well played. I do not go to Phil shows with the same expectations. I will say that I’m glad there are some ballads popping up here and there. Which may not suit everyone either. What I do expect from PLQ is to hear many of those old familiar songs re-invented and interpreted in a new way. For example in Monday’s Bird Song Phil stretched the “I'll show you, Snow and rain” to a “I'll show you, I'll show you, 1 beat, 2 beats, 3 beats,
Snow and rain”. As others have pointed out the Casey Jones, while not high on my list, had a RAPID tempo at the end of it, which for me made it more interesting than its return to the rotation at RFK in ‘92. The novelty of Case Jones had worn off by the time they hit Deer Creek (IMO).

The song roation seems a little smallier this year than in past years, but if you look a the songs that I posted earlier none of those came up. However Bird Song popped up for the first time on Monday as did built to last.

I would love to give a full review of the show, but I feel the environment that we were in dramatically influenced the way I felt during and after this show. About the only consistent theme in all of the reviews is it was DAMN HOT inside the venue. This was also part of Phil’s Cold and Hot theme for the show.

Look a the list again:
Set 1 – minus the jams
Bird Song - “I'll show you. Snow and rain”
Midnight Train -“Headlights flashing in the pouring rain… Flames crackle in the dark of night. We lose the path. Leaves shiver in a silent scream”
Scarlet Begonias –“Not a chill to the winter but a nip to the air… She was too pat to open and too cool to bluff”
Direwolf –“The winter was so hard and cold, froze ten feet 'neath the ground”
Ther Real Thing – “Not like passions fire but a burning, smoldering eternal flame”
Cold Rain & Snow – “And I'm going where those chilly winds don't blow… Run me out in the cold rain and snow”

Set 2
Passenger – “Hearts were too cold Seasons had frozen us Into our souls. People were saying The whole world is burning…”
Built to Last – “You can walk on coals of fire But sometimes you must freeze”
Tons of Steel – “These wheels are bound to jump the tracks Before they burn the ties”
Casey Jones – “The fireman screams and the engine just gleams” (a bit of a stretch here)
Help on the Way – “On the crest of a wave her angels in flame”
Golden Road – “Well, lie down smoking, honey Have yourself a ball” (another stretch here)
Franklin’s Tower – “It can ring like fire when you lose your way… If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind”

Just as the shows theme I left a little hot and cold. Overall a solid show. I would only seek the tape of this show out of curiosity, would my appreciation of this show increases in a milder climate?

See ya at Camden

Thank you for bringing this thread around. Show reviews should be show reviews.

ok bucky here you go, the blue train stats...
if you have the same CD setup as i do your 2nd disc starts with the beginning of the 2nd set...
on my 2nd disc, blue train starts as a tease guitar riff that steps downward, immediately followed by Barraco..this occurs at 15:02...the whole band follows suit for a short while. At 14:15 the band rides the Blue Train riff into a faster, rolling groove and it starts to sound a bit Dark Starish, a slight hint of this theme amongst the building wave of jazz heaven improv that is going on. Then at about 13:35 some Blue Train hints reemerge very clearly just before the jam begins to transform, signalled my some strong Molo rhythms..

About Jerry: Your theory is your opinion but do you really think Jerry was the weakest link? I believe you are way off base, my friend. The real culprit is the bands lack of willingness to allow anyone to take the lead, to suggest a new direction. Jerry said many times he was not the leader, noone was. Bobby said many times how they didn't want to rehearse to "keep it loose". Look at what Phil and Friends get out of rehearsing regularly and having Phil as a leader. they are both tight and loose at the same time.

Phils roots are in large compositions. Jerry roots were as a folkie. They both returned to their roots when they were able to have that freedom, Jerry with Grisman and Phil with his Friends. If you think of how far Jerry, an "honorary Appalacian" according to Mr. Bob Dylan, took improv jamming out there as a lead guitarist its mind boggling considering his true love was ballads and folk songs. With the Dead, toward the end he went back there, too, with Days Between and Standing on the Moon, sentimental folk-style story ballads. can you ever forgive him for this? Also, please remember it was Jerry who brought most of the new songs to the Dead table during the period you say he was holding the band back.

Also, don't you think the band was burnt out on intense jamming after 68-71? and if they had played dark star>the eleven all these years how burnt out would we all be on that? its special because its great music but do you really think phil pulling these gems out these last few years would me nearly as special if the Dead had been playing them all along?

I leave you with this: When i pulled into my GOTV parking spot i had one of those moments where you hear a distant tape playing loudly but you can't place the song. Jerry was playing a solo that completely blew my mind and displayed yet again just how unique and expressve he was and how lucky we were..noone has ever played guitar anywhere near that level to my ears, his bag of tricks was truly immense and from came much, much hard work and practice (alone unfortunately). Yeah he was human, made mistakes from which we hopefully all can learn (Why The HELL are powder drugs still around?) and it was tough to take the last few years, (i can't listen to most of 94-95) but that solo, like most of them(which turned out to be a Eyes of the World solo from '81)was full of "only Jerry" moments.

"man of man oh friend of mine all good things in all good time"

>>>The real culprit is the bands lack of willingness to allow anyone to take the lead, to suggest a new direction

exactly

Cohesive unit...one leader, lots of followers. If you don't like it...leave it.

I can't wait for the opportunity to see this band again..
PLQ - Miss you when ur gone....
Hurry up and get back on the Westcoast....

>>>The real culprit is the bands lack of willingness to allow anyone to take the lead, to suggest a new direction<<<

Were you hoping that Mickey would sing one regularly?
Or would you have preferred Phil to compose set lists nightly?

The Grateful Dead was THE REAL THING.

>>>Cohesive unit...one leader, lots of followers.<<<

What happens when Warren bails and takes Rob with him?
Will Trucks and his Mrs. float your boat?

Tim,

Keep up on the rumors. As for the answer to your question...this band is personal to me, as they are.

Welcome aboard Will, enjoy the ride.......


D

bucky...got yer message..on the jones beach-blue tain thing...i have strange track arrangements on these cd's, the 2nd cd has only 3 tracks and the 2nd track starts with china cat, hence the strange timing...also, i play it on my computer and the time counts backward...if the cd is 71 minutes, it counts 71, then 70:59 then 70:58 and so on...so sorry for any confusion! i'll try to point it out to you a different way in the near future...also sorry to be off topic, just wanted to complete that thought...peace, y'all

Anyone who thinks Jerry's habits were not the thing dragging the GD down have to remember that the rest of the band were his co-dependants. They were unable to do anything about it and thus got into an insulated groove of lacklusterness. And why care, when the money, fame, publicity, accolades (even Rolling Stone embraced the Dead, for chrissake), etc., was rolling in like never before? Besides, they all had family, etc., to focus on. The GD was a job like any other. I certainly don't give 100% every day at my job. Despite my bitching, I am still blown away that PLQ is so good (and for my tastes far more interesting than any post-2/78 GD) but yet attracts a tiny fraction of the GD's ticket sales. What were all those people going for? If the lineup change rumors are indeed true, are lackluster ticket sales one (of many) factors? If the new material was more "epic" ala Terrapin or psychedelic ala The Eleven, instead of being mere songs, would that attract or alienate more people? Someone mentioned the David Spade Sat Nite Live bit in which "we're going to play a song from our new album" = "time to go to the bathroom." In that bit he also says: "Any band that does a bass solo - pure balls!"

so jerrys habits caused the band not to rehearse? he caused them to be lazy? sorry, i don't agree...look up the term "group mind" in communications terms..its the perfect concept for the way the GD approached things...noone wanted to be declared the leader, noone wanted to be the musical manager, basically, with all the involved hassles or responsibilities. too much like "dad". they enjoyed the idea of total democracy mixed with part anarchy..they were rebels, after all..and it eventually it led to the loss of new direction and after the late 70's, they just found new effects to play with and the mothership lost inertia...

but jerry, he was bored with the dead...speaking of RS, check his rolling stone interview from 90 or 91, somewhere around that time..he wanted to rehaul the whole format..but, alas, he didn't want to kick the group, or himself in the collective arse...

he was far from bringing anyone down, though, or lackluster...he had 3 bands during the 90's and his work with Grisman was some of his best..but, yeah, 94-95 had some very sad moments, his habits had finally cost some basic skills..

what attracted all those people? tradition, but most of all Jerry's emotion.....PLQ rocks my soul and transforms my being, amazes me many times nightly but Jerry touches my heart...

To continue the thoughts - The best GD was when they were FORCED to rehearse - the fall '90 tour after Brent's demise - I listened (in a very {tee hee} "open" state of mind) to the GD at Phila 9/12/90 2nd set on the way home from Darien Lk - man - that night the GD sounded as tight and rehearsed as PLQ does now! What the hell were they thinking? Jerry had always been a workaholic. Maybe he wasn't the direct cause of them not rehearsing. I do know I certainly observed first hand, and often from up front, Jerry's health problems bringing down many many shows/tours from Spring '84 on, even a few during the last "good times" from '89 to '92 (I could fill a book with specifics - believe me, I am an anal-retentive borderline idiot-savant!). This HAD to affect the others - playing music in a band is the ultimate in honest communication - if the audience was getting that vibe (I was certainly not alone in picking this up amongst people I went to shows with), his bandmates must have been getting it 100 x stronger! I know in my job I have to work with a different "team" of people on each different project, and when one player isn't pulling his/her weight, it has a disasterous effect on everyone else. Also don't forget Jerry was an idealist at heart - he (and the dead) had many quixotic ideas - revamping the Dead one of them, making a movie of Kurt Vonnegaut's The Sirens of Titans another (one of my favorite books of all times - was always hoping for that project to materialize), then there was setting up their own record company, setting up their own venue, etc. A fraction of these dreams did get realized - GDTS, Jerry picking up MIDI, which was the main cause of the last "good times" in '89 - (have to profuesly thank whoever got him into that! - Doug Irwin?)

so you must know what a harmonium is eh, Bob? that book was one of my favorites too and i was hoping and waiting as well....i agree about the 90-91 era and rehearsals...i just don't think jerry solely caused the group laziness...look at where he took the MIDI as opposed to Bobby..that's where his work ethic paid off big...his bag of tricks was growing always, too, even into the 90s his riffs improved and he got into copping horn charts and weird chit like that..i wish Bobby had never tried to follow Jerry on that one, how many shows-tours did Weir trash spending time kicking his amps, playing with his MIDI..not to mention torturing us with piercing slide and many many times cutting off the very few jam moments ruthlessly for what...the very coveted A+A...HAY.. you could point a 2nd finger at Bob but why bother? yeah, it coulda been better...there.....

i agree it was-is a delicate chemistry and one member can influence the jams and songs big time..it will be interesting to see how the other ones expand on the '98 run, if they have learned to take the music farther out there...

...ya know everyone knew jer was the silent leader and he carried that extra weight figuratively and literally and even though they traded ideas during the jams he was the one the looked up to musically for the core ideas...so when it fell a little flat the burden often fell on him..

i see it in cycles....i love 68-71 to the max, especially 69...71-73 pretty damn tasty, too, starting to sound a bit more songish and at the same time more jazzy and i like that...74, starting to lose me there, not digging some of that heavy drawn out space noodling but some good shows nonetheless...

75........love it, very big change, cool new tunes and arrangements...

76- early 78.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...not my cup o tea, sorry...

late 78-83...My other favorite period..amazing changes, starting with egyptian and world music influence and ending in deep space...

84-85-early 86...starting to lose me again, starting to sound stale to my ears despite the pull outs of long awaited tunes and a few really good shows...

86 post coma to late 87...making a comeback baby!! things sound fresh and energized...jerry is revitalized, raising a fist and playing his heart out..

late 87-90..starting to stagnate again...good shows here and there but too many uneven moments and the band, phil especially, looks really bored at times...some great moments, though, brenden byrne spring '88, warlocks in hampton, albany '90 but too cold when its not hot..

late 90-91...the grass is green once more...funtime with our friend bruce..minus the accordian coulda done w/o that..jgb soars and jerry and gris dig deep and make magic...

92-93...some really great moments, memories...but some signs of slippage and some really so-so new tunes...jgb is better than the dead at this point...

93-95..despite monitors, blown lyrics galore, fans trashing the scene...tough ending...

but not the ending thanks to everyone but jer still playing....music playin the band, like that wheel into unbroken chain encore at GOTV...nice

DID ANYONE GET THE JOKE AT SCRANTON??

The fire marshal was parading around the venue all nite because the buildin was old and it was crowded and UN AIRCONDITIONED.

At the end of the show, they played PASSENGER

and then some one pulled the fire alarm.
the fire trucks pulled up for no reason
"FALSE ALARM THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN"

The humor is not wasted on me.

By Matt Lynott (Gdphilphan) (172.140.170.106) on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 07:34 am: Edit

To everyone out there that was at the scranton show you are lucky. That show was awesome but there is a story behind it. Phil was supposed to come out for a third set!!!! but while they were on break between 1st and second sets they were actually cooking something in the back, and they left the stove on before they came out. The thing burnt during the whole second set and when they were done with that 2nd set the went behind to findout that the stove was burning. The local fire marshal demanded that they play for only 15 more minutes bc the smoke was seeping out and it would have sufficated fans. Imagine a 3rd set there!! wow
That show was my prize bc if you didnt notice, phil wore two sweatbands that night, the original rwb one on his right wrist, and a smaller one on the left. He threw the one off the left wrist into the air and i caught it!!!
The sound for that show was excellent, if someone could get back to me i would love a copy


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By willy rooter (85bonnie) (152.163.195.179) on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 10:11 pm: Edit

i agree, i've seen phil about 25 times and that(scranton) was right up there with the best if not flat out the best. although i read somewhere that some kids outside lit off some fireworks that caused whatever fire there was, there was definatly some really bad fumes, i thought the place was burning down, but as long as phil was still playin i didnt care


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By richard (Lesunra) (68.81.158.84) on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 07:28 pm: Edit

I was there too, and it was awesome. That second set was unbelievable, especially the way it ended. I smelled the smoke too, and it did smell like an electrical type fire. I was a bit concerned for everyone's safety, but was glad they did an encore. I thought they might evacuate us all.

Was it hot enough in there?

I am supposed to get a copy of the show, and if I so I will spread it about, but if a copy comes along sooner I would appreciate a holler.

Also went to Camden, and that was great with another Golden Road. Ahhhhhh. What great memories. I will never forget. Right up there with my favorite Dead shows over the years.

I can't wait 'till they are ther and back again!