Woooo HOoooo three days have gone by after the vibes and I am goig to see Phil again !! I can't wait for the magic to happen.... peace
Does anyone know what time Phil has been going on?
To all the Western New York faithful - Have a joyous time in Darien, and if you run into anyone from Wellsville - Phreak em out!!!
dude I am from Hornell!!! I like most of the "new" songs, as they are fresh! but I want to hear some stuff like ramble on rose, Wharf Rat, or MORNING DEW...tonight....please phil jam out a Morning dew for us tonight...cya at the lots as I am leaving right now to head there 45 mins away and Mickey starts at 5:00 p.m.
Mickey played his cowbell during Casey Jones...
"Mickey break out that Cowbell!!!! We need more Cowbell!!!!"
damn they played Ramble on Rose as an encore, followed by the Van Morrison classic, into the mystic!!!
p/s I also had the great fortune of seeing my future wife at the show ..... u know I love u baby
Alabama Getaway> Jam>
Rock 'n' Roll Blues> Jam>
Sunshine of Your Love>
Doin' That Rag
Lay of the Sunflower> Jam>
*Mickey on cowbelL !!
The Real Thing> Jam>
Brown Eyed Women>
Eyes of the World>
King Solomon's Marbles>
Stronger Than Dirt> Jam>
E: Ramble On Rose>
Into The Mystic
>>>>damn they played Ramble on Rose as an encore, followed by the Van Morrison classic, into the mystic!!!
Gives you a chance to beat the traffic......
hahahaha Bucky phil Knew you were looking for that! and Tennesee Jed~! hate to revive old threads......
Yeah, I loved the second set. And the mountain jam was cool. Smokestack was sooo slow, which I thought was perfect. But when they went into ramble on as a encore, it just seemed wrong. Into the mystic was the redemer.
never cease to amaze me bucky.....
Was that a "real" Mtn. Jam?
or the usual minute long version?
This setlist looks sick!
What's up with the mickey thing?
I'll try to write something more extensive later but I thought the show last night was fantastic. Everybody seemed to be having such a good time up there that Ramble on Rose seemed like a perfect encore choice for me, and a nice surprise to boot.
Mickey was just running around the stage goofing off w/various band members - they were clearly having fun and Phil gave him a big, old hug after the set.
Great show! Setlist here forgot the obvious Tomorrow Never Knows jam though, I think between Midnight Hour and Smokestack.
BTW - who were the kids sidestage urging the crowd to cheer?
BTW #2 - Anyone see the dancing groundhog on Warren's amp at the last few shows? Last night it morphed into a James Brown doll/object during the 2nd set. The groundhog was getting his groove on during Eyes last night.
First set was fairly calm. Jam > Sunshine of Your Love > Mountain Jam > Doin' That Rag - got alot of people on their feet. Casey jones to finish the set was very sweet, with help by the mickster. It was funney cause I looked up at molo, and Hart just appeared, stole molos hat, and proceeded to play the molo's symbols. it was quite commical, then Mickey brought out the cow bell to finish the song. During set break I managed to stand in line and complain with other people about the $3.50 bottles of water, which was the same price as the hotdog, hamburger, frenchfries, and popcorn. Second set Passenger had everybody grooving. But the Jam > Brown Eyed Women > Eyes of the World > King Solomon's Marbles > Stronger Than Dirt was smokin' and very tight. Durning the Smokestack > Midnight there was a nice Tomorrow Never Knows Tease. The Ramble on encore was allright, but into the mystic picked it all back up. All in all it was a very good show. Peace.
I wanna hear the stonger than dirt/king solomons marble's, was it all jimmy or what????
>>BTW - who were the kids sidestage urging the crowd to cheer?
Hey Brian - During the first set there was 2 older kids, who looked like they were haveing a good time. I have no clue who they were. However during the end of the 2nd set, prior to the band comming back, 2 of the kids looked like Phils. I remember seeing a picture of them when they sang "hello old Friend" in 1998. I dont know if Phils brings his children on tour or not, but this could be a possibility.
I'll take that setlist any day. Midnight Hour-Smokestack-Midnight Hour? Wow, Warren must have been especially in the mood to sing. Getting all jazzed up for Great Woods on Saturday, weather is supposed to be primo. Put your drinks in cups and be discreet folks, security and cops there can be nasty IF you attract attention. If you get into such a scrape, apologize and be respectful, they'll most likely let you go. Give em guff, and you'll definitley spend the night in jail.
what a nice performance....Alabama > Tennessee was a smooth opener....gotta love Doin that Rag...vocals were nice...sound in the front section was thumpin....Eyes > KSM > Stronger was the highlight for me...Blues for Allah was a great album....Ramble on baby...see you again in Charlotte....
The deal with Mickey was...ummm, how can I put this, without offended the Mickeyheads...
But, it was somewhat entertaining to see him hop through hoops for applause...
Mickey once again rapped "Fire"...I kept telling myself..."stay out in the lot, you know he's gonna do it."
Stupid me...I go in to see him.
"Throw your hands in the air and wave 'em like you just don't care." -Mickeys stage Homie.
Anyhow...Phil was just that...Phil, I can't figure out if I liked Toronto better though (due I'm sure to all the Canadian brews I ingested and some trippy "J" a Caunuck soul sister hooked me with), both shows were very sweet...now a rest and off for Scranton...
>>>This setlist looks sick!
You forgot the -ening part after sick.......
>>>You forgot the -ening part after sick.......
Heh, whatever unlike some people I like words with my songs. Keep in mind I'm not anti-jam. So don't even go there.
I haven't posted here in a while so I can't remember...does Bucky always rain on people's parade or is he just having a bad day?
The story behind the Into the Mystic - At the Gathering, when Phil was meeting people and signing donor cards, my buddy Jason asked him if he could hold off playing that tune until the 10th because it was his birthday (mine too!). Apparently Phil has much better short term memory than I thought, or he took a note At any rate, I wish I could've seen Jason's face when they started playing that tune! PHIL RULES!!!
Well, I DID tell Warren to tell Phil to play Dark Star at GOTV in March.
Heh, whatever unlike some people I like words with my songs. Keep in mind I'm not anti-jam. So don't even go there.
Anti-jam = Ratdog fan......
But, keep in mind that there's a BIG difference between 'Into The Mystic' & Dark Star too.
As for raining on people's parades, sorry, I know I wasn't there, but the list just brought back bad memories of the listless play in the Fall:
Lay of the Sunflower
Ramble On Rose
It was like the worst of both shows rolled into one.......
Bucky..Call em as u c em..
Dealing the cards...Dates, places, tunes, properly qaulified as fact ie: I was there, Or opinion ie: in light of not being at show...
Have noticed however BMan picks his threads.Does'nt too often throw stones in the other stuff politic / lots threads..??
I really appreciate the Zone crew and their in depth coverage of scene..Especially gotv return postings..Call it PZN ( WHAT CNN WON'T, CAN'T, DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT OR IS AFFRAID TO COVER)
Brings to an old man who hates to leave the far far South Left coast a real feeling of keeping in touch..Thanks to the Zone reporting crew...Guys and especially gals...
>>>But, keep in mind that there's a BIG difference between 'Into The Mystic' & Dark Star too.
Dude, I totally know what you mean. Honestly I could do without the Van Morrison, and the Watchtowers. I'm talking bout the rest of the set, my point being I would take a rippin' Alabama over a Dark Star where the jams were loose and went NO-where. Which does happen.
>>>does Bucky always rain on people's parade or is he just having a bad day?
I don't think he's raining on anyones parade, he's just opinionated and critiques the music he loves. I do it too.
>>>my buddy Jason asked him if he could hold off playing that tune until the 10th
Dude if that's true that fuckin' kicks ass!
>>>Dude if that's true that fuckin' kicks ass!
It's no lie!!! I'm tellin' ya, PHIL LESH RULES!!!
This show was so undersold that they were allowing you to trade your lawn seat for a pavillion one once you got inside. That was pretty cool.
>What's up with the mickey thing?
You mean Mickey's set or when he was with phil?
I only caught the last 2 songs of his set. Aiko> Fire. It was fun. But, I mean, considering how much I love those songs and based on what I heard, I don't think I missed too much.
I didn't notice Mickey was out during phil's set.
I was going to wait till after the tour to compose thourough reviews, but since everyone is bashing bucky, let me say, I have been to the last 5 in a row, and it has, IMHO, been my least favorite Phil tour since the current config. started in 9/00. I wouldn't mind the average show length now dipping into the 160'- range, but the new songs take so much time now, there's hardly any time left for "the goods". Leave Me Out of This is a Phish song, Again and Again is Seals and Crofts. I sure hope I somehow will be able to tolerate these songs someday, or I have to stop going, but they may as well be Vince songs. The Tomorrow Never Knows ripoff was the worst offense of all! A lame double encore hardly makes up for a 72' 2nd set (now the norm setlist format). My expectations are being lowered with every show. I will say the sound is a million times better now, and the jams are intense, just the length and the song choices totally suck. Oh, I did have a good time! And am now a free man!
Also, even the best show, Pittsburgh, was just a bunch of songs slapped together and was teasing an early end to the 2nd set repeatedly. They are actively trying to piss off people like me (and Bucky). As it got to be with the dead after 1978, every show now has a "flaw" to keep it from being a great show (either length or a lot of new songs or a lame ending or all of these). It does not seem this tour will have any shows like last year's Red Rocks, Holmdel, Camden, last fall's Ohio, Friday Beacon, Boston run, new year's, the entire spring 01/fall 00 tours. These will all be "little" shows, with islands of good stuff surrounded by a sea of crap to wade through. I still refuse to give up hope for some kind of great combo for at least one show.
Sideshow Bob -
I am sorry you are not diggin it, if only bc I think it is important to derive as much joy from life as possible. but a few thoughts.
You're not the first person I've heard compare the new songs to other artists' tunes, cheese 70s stuff for A&A...for instance. I venture this. They are new tunes with very clear melodies. As new tunes, they are by definition expanding. Maybe the band is still finding the soul of the songs? I actually think they do find it some nights, I thought the Leave me Out of This in Toronto was dead on, as well as the A&A at the Vibes, as well as Toronto's Patchwork Quilt...or Warren doing the Real Thing acoustic...there are good moments.
As I was saying at the Vibes, Phil and his band are constantly expanding the shape of the tunes FOR ME - whether that's breaking down Cumberland or jazzing up UJB or reclaiming New Potato Caboose or KSM....I never REALLY know what to expect with them. YES, I give you that the setlists have prerequisites...the new tunes MUST be played, but we knew that going in...didn't we???
The Jams ARE intense. Toronto WAS too short. But I'm willing to dig into the new songs For What They Are. Not Stephen. Not Dark Star. Not HSF, or Till the Morning Comes. New songs, evolving...always looking Forward....
so, Sideshow Bob....have fun if possible...if you're doing PNC it seems the mega Dark Star Stephen Mts of the Moon classic rendition gig might be up, no?
First of all, i'd like to thank the Rev for hooking me up with sweet seats. I must agree with sideshow bob and say that my enjoyment of this band has gone down plenty since last fall. Sure,a few highlights every show, but they are becoming less and less for me.loved the king soloman's>stronger than dirt,and sunshine of your love,and eye's was nice but not epic by any means.some of the new tunes(RR blews,A&A,1000 stars,are cheesy,and have me heading for the beer line as soon as they start, and i bought the CD and really understand that new music is needed to keep everyone fresh and interested, but they're overplaying the new CD songs and I for one would not travel more than a few hours to see them. Sorry if I seem negative,I used to like em ALOT more.
Tell it like it is BOB!
haven't bought that CD or listened to it yet just for that reason bill. I guess im trying to live in a surreal world, but hoping it holds.
Yup...Dark Star...greg, you know how I feel. Good ones, bad ones, needs soul and time - like all tunes - can't be just there for the sake of novelty or setlist.
And yet...when I told Boo Dark Star was up...I heard that old refrain...."Yeah, that'd be one of the songs I don't need to hear again." And this coming from someone who did the 11/30/01....?????
What's that someone once said about people who like licorice? ;)
>>>I have been to the last 5 in a row, and it has, IMHO, been my least favorite Phil tour since the current config. started in 9/00
That's a VERY scary statement considering the drop-off in the level of play beginning with last fall's tour.......
Please tell me I didn't read you putting 'Til The Morning Comes' in the same class with Stephen, Dark Star & HSF?
I too think I got real lucky last Friday.
I'm most definitely considering packing it in after Hartford, but I had that thought going in.
If you're sick of the new songs already, wait until they write a few more......
Remember the comment attributed to Rob Barraco by someone who allegedly talked to him a few months ago:
"What we'd like is to play 50% Dead songs & 50% original material."
I don't know about you, but as a Crusty Old Fart, I have no interest in putting in the financial, logistical & physical demands required in going to shows showcasing a 'new' band as it develops it's own identity......
Bucky, well, I did kinda put them in the same category...but oc they are very different. I'd like to hear Til the AM Comes, myself, and to me it is "breakout", "classic"...but certainly not the Mega Jam Brilliance potential of those other juggernauts, oc not. But the new songs are neither jamout uncut rock diamonds....neither are they the 1970-71 "songs"...Sittin on Top, Till the Am, Candyman, Alice D., etc. That's all I mean to say...my expectations for them are different yet again.
But I do have one major diff of opinion with ya. I have never had the time or money to give to "tour" in the past. This summer I am doing more than I have done before, but I knew going in that this album would be a major focus. It seems to be integrating a little better....maybe? The lists seem to be "maturing", getting tossed up. And I DO have time to watch a band find its identity....otherwise I think the whole gig risks being called a nostalgia act. I only hope, as I said to my new friend at the Vibes...that it does not becomes clear only to instantly shatter...
and if it's 50% dead...and 50% new....where do the Mule covers fit in? Oh yeah, ain't heard one of those for a while. Or...the keep on growings or the Sunshines of yr love or the Into the Mystics? Well...they're there...but less in rotation for sure. And the Beatles covers....well, they are definitely in the mix. so...I wouldn't say it's quite an even split....
Dude, I totally know what you mean
This is some intense stuff ..Man..>>puff
Does anyone have "Spicoli" for a screenname..??
And I DO have time to watch a band find its identity....
....otherwise I think the whole gig risks being called a nostalgia act.....
Yeah..I'll see Phil every time I can....
.....say all you want you jaded tour zoners/deadheads about crappy setlists, expensive bottled water, people who leave the toilet seats up in the porto-john and chessy new tunes that remind everyone of cheesy old tunes...
....I attended the show last night with a couple newbies and they both loved the show...neither one had been to anything remotely like this or were even into this kind of jamming music....just two female co-workers who were curious why people such as myself would actually want to follow one band around the country for a whole summer....things went mighty swell and they thought the music, the crowd and the entire experience was great and are already asking me to get them tickets for another show...
....my point being...sometimes ya just gotta lighten up and treat each show like its your first one...maybe you'd enjoy it more....it seems like too may people in the zone just can't wait to get their mailorder in for the entire tour but for what?...so they can get to a computer right after each show and post how dreadful everything was and how the past was always better...tell ya what...next time anyone of you has 2 tickets and are really physched up to go have a bad time...send me your tickets instead and I'll spare ya the aggravation....I'll bring my girl from work 'cause we both had a great time at Darien...dancin' in the aisles with a cute blonde seems much more fun to me than sitting there trying to figure out why P&F isn't playing this or that to your standards....relax folks and enjoy the show....
I would take new songs/sounds that are being developed & expanded over the common placed dead list. I was gald to see that HSF was broken up on 11/17/01with a H>S Golden Road encore Franklens. And I can not tell you how relived I was not to have a One More Sat. on Saturday night at the vibes. The guys behind me were calling for it as soon as the donor rap started. Granted I was thrown off by Again and Again in the middle of DS, but I applaud the effort to avoid the complacent trap and spin the same song pairings of years gone by.
>>>There's a big difference between Into The Mystic and Dark Star...
I totally understand where the Buckmeister is coming from. I used to be that way myself.
Back when we lived and breathed Dead 24 hours a day, you couldn't wait for Jerry and his ravaged vocals to get through Scarlet and for the soaring jam to begin. Thanks to the fast forward button, I rarely listened to the words of Estimated or Playin'. Go right to the jam. Why would I be remotely interested in something like Peggy-O, for example? I had in mind the definitive versions (9/3/77 & 10/22/78), and knew the plot (kills people, dies for a maid in Louisiana), so what was the point? Everything was reduced to what they did before and after drums - that's where the variety and intensity could be found.
So I respect his opinion, and anyone who writes reviews like that is worthy of respect.
But I still think there's a place for the finely crafted "song," or ballad if you will, where the emphasis may be more on the lyrics and that other great instrument, the human voice.
And Haynes and Baracco are great singers.
Nowadays (here I go again with that "I'm older & wiser" b.s.)- these days, I don't listen to that much P&F between shows and it's definitely on purpose. I think it's real important to keep things fresh. At GOTV, when they did NFA>Lucy In The Sky, it wasn't, like, "NFA was better at Jones Beach '01... LSD has no meat on its bones...where's the Other One?..." I was thinking of Lennon. PICTURE YOURSELF IN A BOAT ON A RIVER. What a great tune and I believe it was the first time I had heard it. I loved it and the crowd loved it.
Make no mistake, when they rip into the killer instrumentals is still my favorite part, but I can appreciate, and do enjoy, the other stuff too.
I would suggest to Bucky, if he isn't already, he should get into Steve Kimock. He only does 2 or 3 songs a night and there's no singing.
[P.S. 2nd row tonight. Dead center. Through a friend. Pumped.]
LJS...perfectly said my man...
Geeze, guys, maybe we should ask Phil and the guys not to ever play anything new. I mean, after all, why would we want an artisit to grow and try new things? Maybe Phil should just hit the oldies tour circuit with The Monkees and Styx. Give me a fucking break.
I agree with Georgie. I don't listen to many P&F bootlegs simply to keep every show I see a new experience, approached with a completely open mind. Entering anything with extremely high expectations usually will result in disappointment.
I would imagine there were some rather dissappointed folks back in the day when the dead rolled out Blues for Allah, Terrapin Station and Shakedown Street albums within a couple years and put them heavily into the setlist rotations. I wasn't there for that. I was around (started in '84) when the boys rolled out Bucket, Touch, Foolish, SOTM, etc. Foolish Heart was a disappointment to me when it first come out, but evolved into some good jamming eventually. Touch never had enough room for them to move.
My point: Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but don't complain if you go to too many shows. Not a BAD problem.
Who needs tapes when you East Coasters can see PLQ every night and only have to drive a couple hours each day to get to show..You're so civilized back there..Out west you might die in the desert gettin to next venue... or drive off some cliff like Kesey did...
Not to get into another 'setlist' debate, but I think it's been this way with 'new' songs as long as I've been going to the Dead (1979):
They try out some new songs a year or 2 before the album, put out the album & overplay the new songs, eventually drop the lesser QTY ones (can you say R&R Blues?), & keep a few of the good ones, sometimes developing them far beyond what they sounded like at the beginning (Estimated for example).
Then, a year or 2 of comfort goes by & they write a few new songs, try them out for a year or two.....
ETC, ETC, ETC.....
Yup. And I honestly say I like THIS album way better than what the Dead were pulling out in the last run. Wave to the Wind, Corrina, Samba, Lazy River Road, So Many Roads, Days Between, Way to Go Home...I'd rather hear any new Phil song (cept maybe R&R) than those.
So as far as new material...I'm at peace...in fact some of the new songs I really LIKE...No More Do I, A&A, Real Thing, Quilt...and I'm beginning to groove on LMOOT and Underground....and Midnight Train...and Liberty, welllllll.....
So, it's BALANCE, right? Essentially I'm there bc I really believe in Phil, trust his judgement. He's introduced me to some cool music, and has assembled a great group here. (He knows it too.) They wrote some new tunes....they want to share, I'm up for it. At least the man IS mixing it up with classic yummy stickiness....Stephen, Masons, Dark Star, Viola, blah blah blah.
But YES...it's almost like someone has the boards bugged, right? They keep R&R to a rarity it seems, thankfully, and give us gems we like. (And where's that Dew, Phil? Or the Stella? hmmmmmm.) Sometimes I think Phil was sending YOU the good vibe Friday in mariahville, Bucky....a little something just for you. Or maybe not. But the music has the potential you allow it to have...right? If you close yr ears to new tunes...they will never have an opportunity to wrap around yr soul like a vine.....and since we've acknowlegded that the newness falls in this pattern....should it be cause for dismay?
I like it when the songs develop into full blown rock and roll monsters..A couple in mind..Need a Miracle..Sugar Mag...
Amen LJS! imagine that....dancing in the aisles with a cute blonde instead of sitting on your crusty chair arguing with Bucky over which songs fall in the "same class" as Dark Star and St Stephen.
This isn't rocket science folks, it's rock and roll. Have a few beers and get out and boogie with your friends...or God forbid, a woman.
There's something ironically distrubing about someone (GR8FULDAD) who's seen 32 Phil shows and can only say how disappointed he is with the band. Sort of like the guy who doesn't go to shows anymore, hates what the band is doing, but manages to show up on the Phil Zone every morning. Hmmmm.
As for the band not matching their intensity of the fall '00 tour, get over it, that is to be expected. Everything was new to them in 00. We're lucky to have seen those magic shows. And as for the shorter set lists--they're doing like 25 shows in 30 days-- give em a break. And Good Lord, this guy who times the sets by the minute needs to take off his watch! I'd love to go to a show with him. Not. Oughta change his screen name to buzz-kill.
At 62, Phil is two years older than my dad. And if you haven't heard, we're lucky to have him at all. And Warren's playing over 300 shows a year. Likewise.
But whether you like the new songs or not, jams or ballads, etc. NO ONE can tell me these guys are coasting through this tour. Every single show has brilliant moments and killer jams. Nearly every show has a grouping, placement, or treatment that has never been done. After studying these set lists for 3 years, he's still surprising us all. Midnight Hour-Smokestack-Midnight Hour? I'll take that any day. NFA-Lucy--NFA? Hell yeah. Even the encore of Into the Mystic--would be cool becuase it's never(seldom?) been in that slot before, and as we've learned, it held a greater signifigance. He saved that tune for some dude's b-day who was giving blood?!?! Whhoaa--makes you feel kind of petty for griping about it, doesn't it?
The artistry, vision and love he puts into designing a set-list is bigger than all of our personal preferences. And that some shows fall flat and others sizzle is the serendipity and human element of live performance. It's what keeps us coming back for more. There WILL be another red rocks 01. Could be tonight.
All I can say is, taking a week off from work is a HUGE sacrifice for me, and those shows were just NOT WORTH IT! I do try to have as best a time as I can, I do dance if there's room and with a girl if possible, I did have a good time for the most part, but, in listening to the tapes immediately afterward, a listlessness is just all too apparent. I listened to the 1st Vibes show at home, then left for Pittsburgh, listening to last year's Camden in the car. No comparison! Camden blew me away all over again! I and others noticed Warren and Jimmy exchanging dirty looks during the several mistakes in Keep on Growin and King Solomon's - yes, mistakes, like the dead did, like Phil never or rarely did last year - blatant mistakes (not different ways of playing it) - wait till you hear the tapes, folks, I'm not kidding. Maybe Warren is truly overextended, or Phil is preoccupied with The Other Ones reunion, maybe it is just time, as it was with Hornsby in '92. I will still be there tonight (leaving in 10') and every night, hoping for "the show", having as best a time as I can, all the way 'till Merriweather, and then Red Rocks (NO WAY this year's will beat or even come close to last year's), it sure beats going to the casino . . .
Hmmmm. The Dead I fell in love with 20 years ago always played a nice mix of tunes. Songs heavy on vocals and songs that were mostly instrumentals. Slow, fast, Rock&Roll, country, blues, new, old, ballads, originals, covers and all out jams. I think Phil is staying true to that formula. If he didn't, and shows were just one long jam session (more like a few years ago and people bitched about it) he'd loose a lot of folks. If they didn't write and play new songs as well as add new covers, things would get stale and the players would get bored. That's why Warren left the Allmans a few years ago, they were becoming a nostalgia act. Now he's back in the Allmans, they've got a bunch of excellent fresh material and the fire is back. Having new stuff elevates the old stuff to a higher level, yet people will still complain that the new songs took space in the setlist away from a crusty old tune. New material is neccessary to keep bands viable, evolving, creative entities. Call them a "neccessary evil" if you must but if only in the interest of being able to continue to hear the old stuff played with vigor and creativity, new material should be encouraged and supported.
I havent seen any shows this tour yet, but, plan on a southeastern run and red rocks over labor day, but, hope you guys will have a little faith. Not every show is going to be THE show, and I believe w/ this band, the intent, which is one of the most factors, is there.
We cant ask for perfection every night. I know I am glad I am still able to witness Phil playing w/ reckless abandon, who knows how long it will last. Have a great weekend!
In all fairness to P&F, the shows in the Fall were longer than the shows last summer, I think it has something to do with the heat.
But, I do agree with Sideshow that the band seemed to be on a continuous 'uphill' direction from Fall 2000 to Spring 2001, & then peaking last summer.
Since then, I've noticed a lot less 'dual leads' or 'interchange' between the 2 guitarists (which I love) & much more of an overall 'decline' in level of performance as a rule.
So, don't say 'Love it or leave it', that's not the point. The point is we pay $$ to see these shows & have a right to critique the band as we see & do not have to worship everything they do like it was perfect.
Bucky has a right to say that.... I have a right to say love Phil, Jimmy, Warren, Rob, and john... thanks for the love. as for the songs hmmmmmm it's like baseball, you have your superstars and then there are the average players. Sometimes the superstars suck and the average guys make great plays (if you can follow this) or vice-versa.... you just never know. one thing is for sure, we All love the grateful dead and have enjoyed it's music in our lives.
Hey Reddy Killowatt...
Nice pic in your profile...reminds me of growing up in upstate NY...Lacrosse freaks everywhere..
remember the dancing bears shirt where theyre carrying lacrosse sticks? HAHAH memories
Yea dude I remember that shirt...
...hey, I need a Philzone Lax shirt!!!!
I went to Corning East...you've probably heard of it, huge lacrosse powerhouse in NY. Didnt play though everyone I knew did. Do they still go to the finals every year? I havent been back there in about 5 yrs.
Despite the bad press Bucky gets among some "phans" I sure glean alot more about the level of music that was played from his reviews than the reviews that consist of the show rocked and I was boogying in the aisles with a cute blonde. It's grate that some people don't need high quality music (note: low level P&F is still way better than anything else out there) to enjoy themselves. The thing is, Phil is such a phenomenal musician, he attracts a lot of fans who take the music seriously and listen to it closely. So much of what he is doing and has done in the Dead is missed by most Dead heads (except bombs, but who can miss a bomb?). I've caught P&F three times (2/12/01, 7/3/01, and 5/28/02) and each time got progressively less impressive. I've been saying it for a long time. It's time for a new lineup of musicians to push the envelope with Phil and do some truly adventurous playing. Scofield and Ford would be alright with me.
Yo Tommybell YOU TALKIN TO ME ??
"There's something ironically distrubing about someone (GR8FULDAD) who's seen 32 Phil shows and can only say how disappointed he is with the band."
Hit me again w/ something else..Or find where I said or implied "Like #'s or quality of shows I've been to"..No posts in that realm...
If you gonna knock me by name..do so for the zillion things legit to knock me for..
..I'll take a punch or 2 if I'm out of line..
But if I'm hit cause u think I'm someone else..not good....
Say whatever u want...BUT..Leave (NAMES) out of it unless ur sure you got the story right...
Oh yeah, without disagreeing with Bucky that being a paying customer gives one the right to demand excellence that you know is achievable, just knowing that musical excellence is achievable is enough for me to be honest in reviewing a show that is less than excellent. We are talking about music. A product of inspiration - breath of the spirit. This is serious business and giving glowing reviews about less than inspired shows is more of a crime to the musicians than to state the truth. If Bucky's comments are a buzzkill, then it is because he speaks the truth about the music and the buzz from the show is really a buzz from drugs. If the music is truly at it's peak, then no grumbly old crusty is going to be able to kill your buzz.
(If someone told me Django was an idiot and didn't know what he was doing, I would just smile shrug my shoulders and get back to listening and probably chuckle to myself. My buzz wouldn't come down one notch.)
If you go to a show & see somebody with his hands cupped over his ears & his eyes closed, it's me.....
As one Zoner said "he gets a REAL serious look on his face."
Interesting discussion without 'devolving' into a "The setlist sucks/You weren't there" arguement, but a couple points:
One was Phil saying in an interview, I think it was late 2000 or early 2001 (anyone remember, it must have been on this site) that with every band he had been in, he knew the upside of potential, but with this group of Friends, what was 'best' just kept going up & up & he didn't know what the peak was.
A year & a half later, I think we do.....
Two, I met a guy at GOTV, Scott.
He was saying he liked P&F better, but also liked Ratdog.
I was saying they didn't jam enough, etc.
He said "I go with lower expectations."
I said "I can't. I want an eargasm (i.e., the euphoric felling that comes from being 'blown away' by the music)."
Funny, though, I asked Scott how he liked 12-3-01 with Bob. He said "Too much Bobby."
Yet, I actually liked the show alot (on tape - got shut out), despite Bob's vocal mistakes & the lame Sugar Mag jam not once, but twice.......
I guess maybe being P&F, Scott had higher expectations.......
And getting Bob, Bob, Bob led to disappointment.
>>>Geeze, guys, maybe we should ask Phil and the guys not to ever play anything new.
I remember Graham Nash saying one time at a CSN show, "We've decided this (a new song) is what you want to hear now. The new material keeps us going."
On the other side, as David Spade once said on SNL, "When the band says 'We're going to play something off the new album', they should just say 'Everybody get up & go to the bathroom.'"
I've been to 3 P+F Shows..
+++ Numero Uno..
12/27/97 Maritime Hall - San Francisco, CA
* Set 1: Honeydew > An American Family, Live One, Jacqueline, Crazy Crazy Crazy, Bird Song, Sugar Magnolia > Scarlet Begonias > Brown-Eyed Women, El Paso, China Cat Sunflower > Mexicali Blues, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues, Alabama Getaway
* Set 2: Eyes of the World > He's Gone, They Love Each Other, Cassidy > Cold Rain and Snow, Black Peter > Morning Dew > Terrapin Station > I Know You Rider, E: Box of Rain
*Comment: Unbroken Chain Foundation Benefit.
07/01/00 Del Mar Fairgrounds-Del Mar,CA..
* Closing for Bob Dylan
05/24/02 Open Air Theater - San Diego, CA
*And Yes..There and Back Again Tour..
Stop Numero Dos on West Coast Run...
I Remember having a good time at all 3 of these shows...
After skimming over these posts, I don't think anyone has added to the setlist. Forgive me if the TNK is out of order. I'm pretty sure this is how it went.
Real Thing> Jam >
B E Women >
King Solomon's Marbles >
Stronger Than Dirt > Jam >
Midnight Hour >
Midnight Hour >
Tomorrow Never Knows (Instrumental) >
Midnight Hour Reprise >
E: Ramble On Rose >
Into The Mystic
What a wonderful show, I was glad I drove 14 hours to see it. Even though I missed Alabama & Tenn Jed.
Couldn't agree more with Djangoman. I miss the freshness and adventure and greater effort demanded by more frequent changes of lineup. The current configuration has been one of the best (yes, *one* of the best; many of the Kimock lineups were just as good, in their own way), and it's great to see these artists growing with new material. If the lineup never changes, I'll still go to lots of shows. But I'd sure like to see some fresh blood again...
ok folks.......just a word on some of the comments i've seen posted
lets be happy the music is still here-----
lets enjoy the present way the music is being presented----
lets lighten up a bit huh??? every show is not going to be a highlight reel ready to be put down in the annuls of past experiences.
i was at darien and had a fantastic time----thought for the most part the tunes were played well and the jams were tasty......
think of it this way-----when this all winds down and we resort to cover bands consisting of 18 yr olds that never saw the boys play, stumbling through jams they have no business playing----what will you people be saying then??????
keep on rockin phil---thank you for a real good time
The show rocked hard~and if anyone knows Scott, Country, or styx (some of the groupies) get me back!!
>from his reviews than the reviews that consist of the show rocked and I was boogying in the aisles with a cute blonde.
.......Djangoman I guess your view from that lofty perch you apparently are looking down from has caused you to lose your perspective on what I was saying...sometime's ya just gotta relax and enjoy the show, warts and all, thats it...I was simply commenting on the great time that I had, rather than on the technical aspects of the musicians and setlist....Bucky's (and everyone else's for that matter) reviews, comments and occassional lambastings of the band and setlists is very much appreciated and I for one really respect what he is saying....last year I was fortunate enuff to see 10 or 12 shows and would agree for the most part what is being said about P&F....this year circumstances being different I'll only hit a few shows and plan to make the most of them....maybe I'm just a simple-minded guy from Upstate NY or possibly I'm just not worthy of the whole Phil scene anymore....but it seems to me that if I'm gonna pay $56 per ticket, $30 each for tour shirts and much more $$$$$ on drinks and partyables, then I'm gonna do my best to have a great time....even if the music/setlist may not be as desirable as last nights/years/decades show...I like to go with the flow of the particular show that I happen to be at...so that if my saying that I had a great time at the show, introduced some new people to the 'scene' and thoroughly enjoyed myself boogying in the aisles with my blondie makes me a lowbrow in your eyes, then perhaps we should set up another system for reviewing the shows:
1. P&F reviews for people who simply had a good time and just wanted to share their experience with fellow zoners.
2. P&F reviews for people who tried to have a good time but couldn't because it wasn't a perfect show for whatever reasons.
3. P&F reviews for people who went to the show with no intentions of having a good time because they know that life just isn't the same without Jerry anymore.
4. P&F reviews for people who never even went to the show because they knew it wouldn't meet up with their standards but still have opinions on how it could have been better.
Django, nothing personal man, just venting a bit 'cause ya kinda buzzkilled my comments about the beautiful day I had enjoying the simple pleasures in life with my friends...been too stressed lately....
I met a long time Zoner (I won't say her name) who's seen about 75-100 P&F shows.
She'd been on tour all week & said "Darien sucked!"
Her words, not mine.
BTW, they loved Friday & Saturday, so there's your point of reference........
.....does a pair of newbies beat one long time Zoner?
This was their first P&F experience and they thought "It was great"
Their words, no one elses.
BTW - I have seen only two shows this summer and I still had a great time at Darien Lake, the show I saw and am using as my point of reference.....
>>>& said "Darien sucked!"
you mean, me, Buckster?? If so, feel free to name your source, Darien did indeed, suck my ass.
To some people, part of 'the show' is the socializing, party & drugs they use plus the music, which can actually be something besides their main focus.
Look at what TC writes as to why he liked Saturday at GOTV....
Me, I draw lines between 'the fun' or other stuff & the music itself.
To me, it's black & white.
To others, it's grey.
Maybe sucks doesn't mean what it used to...when an appreciator of a bands "art"..the music they create on a given night..says it sucked .and then great the next..???.Is that Dissecting things a little to much???
If I screw up measuring some custom glass..like in a mall, those cool looking all glass doors and storefront..I can spend time tweaking it..then i decide is that the best I can get..tweak it some more..adjust..
Then if I'm not happy..I can decide..Maybe i take a little less profit and order some new sized glass to get my desired bitchinest perfect finished product...I like to work for people I like..That way i got no excuses for crappy job..I did,nt like that dude anyway,,so fuck him..I don;t need to do my best..
My work is not art..it's craftsmanship...
Live Music is art,,Studio Work like craft... an album might "suck" cause you had time.. you tweaked it spent time and it not the best work you've done.....A show is one night in a lifetime of performances..,DONE ONE TIME>>and it's over..Brush on canvas..No editing...Can't go back..fix nothin...
The boys can say they sucked..But for the Phans..Going To Shows..It's not a job..It's not work>>and when it feels that way..It's time to take a break...IMHO
First of all, some good metaphoric musings on what it means to check out Phil and some Friends lay it down better than anyone else out there.
LSJ - Points well taken. Sometimes I get tired when people get defensive about critiques of the level of music at a given show. Thanks for reminding me though, that the music is a catalyst of so much more than the notes that were played from the stage. There's something about the music (thanks to Phil) that makes for beautiful (and sometimes life-changing) life experiences to happen spontaneously.
Thanks for pulling me down from my perch. The view is better than I thought. I'll get back up there soon enough. . . .
>But it's not always about the tunes... "Tapecat"
That was the perfect post, I must admit....
....OK OK you guys win, I did not enjoy the show....I have been overruled and out opinionated by the Zone Masters....thank you sirs, can I have another....THWACKKKK!!!!!...
...but thats alright because I kinda embellished my original story anyhow...the cute blonde chick wasn't cute or a even a chick...it was my pimply faced 13 year old nephew with the sweaty gland problem...he was the one wearing a mullet and a liberate Palestine t-shirt...there was no dancing in the aisles either, actually he was puking, believe it was fudge and cheese doodles...all over some hippy chick and her tarot cards, can't imagine she had a great time....Newbies?!?! another lie...the kid has been to over 1,000 Phil shows so you think he would know better by now that he shouldn't try to hang anything on the mic stands but all he wanted to do was let the vomit on his shirt dry...by now you're prolly wondering why I wasn't watching over this kid...well when I'm at a show I need total concentration so I just put in a disc of one of my favorite shows and pop on the headphones...that way its all about the music...bring my own bottled water in so I don't have to pay $4.00....most of the time, especially at Darien, I just sit and stare straight (that means not stoned on booze, gooballs or schwag) ahead and start looking forward to the better setlist and musicianship that P&F will surely play at the next venue the following night...sometimes I feel like I should just quit life and play Dead but its to late for that so I now live vicariously thru Phil, suffering from the all too many recent valleys but still hoping for a few peaks like back in the good ole days...what the hell was Phil thinking at this show???....throwing in new songs here and there when his band hasn't even mastered the old tunes...and who picks the setlists?....Warren giving the hairy eyeball all night to Jimmy who just stands there like the cat has his tongue or something....they oughtta start playing that old Stones tune "No Expectations"....sums it all up for me...
....well its off to Hershey for another night of musical mediocrity...bet they are playing the ideal set and band is on fire tonite...playing every note pure and easy....hope everyone's next show "sucks" as bad as mine did at Darien Lake.....
>>>>>But it's not always about the tunes... "Tapecat"
That was the perfect post, I must admit....
To some of us IT IS!
We aren't there to play hippy or have 'a life changing experience', we are there to enjoy the music. PERIOD!
Some nights are simply better than others.
And, while we're at it, at $45 a show, we have a right to say if we liked it or not.
When Phil or any other band start playing free shows that I can go to, I won't say a negative word about the setlist or QTY of play even if he plays Stella Blew twice.
>And, while we're at it, at $45 a show, we have a right to say if we liked it or not.
...I'm confused about the series of contradictions that you posted above...based on our exchanges am I to understand that you can say what you want, but I can't say anything that conflicts with your views?...obviously anything I post here is not suitable to your standards......I started out with a simple post saying I went with friends to this particular show and we all had a great time listening to the music and dancing in the aisles...I don't believe I mentioned anything in my posts about playing hippy or having a life changing experience...I just had fun...apparently this was unacceptable to some people....I promise never to enjoy myself again...in fact I plan on giving up sex as well...no eargasms, no orgasms...
....you start out your post agreeing with TC that its not always about the tunes, then you say right after that your "are there to enjoy the music. PERIOD!" Make up your mind!
.....why don't you meet up with me at Hershey and I can observe and be schooled in the proper way to attend and enjoy a P&F show?....
.....what the f*ck Buck?...Buzz me offline if I'm missing something in these exchanges....I've always respected your positions if you scroll back thru the Zone time threads....just because I go to shows for both the socializing and the music, rather than treating each one as bad music in the making, shouldn't make me any less of a Phil Phan.....
>>>>....you start out your post agreeing with TC that its not always about the tunes, then you say right after that your "are there to enjoy the music. PERIOD!" Make up your mind!
The opening to my comments is called a 'cut & paste'.
On this site, the signal for a 'cut & paste' is >>>>
My comments followed TC's & another person's agreeing with them......
OK, got it?
I was just responding to TC's criteria of what makes a show 'good' or 'bad' by saying that to me, it's THE MUSIC. PERIOD.
I can have a great time meeting Zoners or hanging out with friends, or, I can get stuck in a thunderstorm on the way in, but that isn't going to change the QTY of the musical experience to me. That's all I was trying to say.
.......I understand the concept of cut and pasting...you just happen to be more generous with your >>>>>>>>s than I...I go for the solo >.........
....that was my original C&P of TC, in response to one of your postings, followed by my own comment praising his words....you then cut and pasted both and added your own comments...
>>>>>>>>Look at what TC writes as to why he liked Saturday at GOTV.... (Bucky)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(pretty good C&P arrowing huh?)But it's not always about the tunes... "Tapecat"
That was the perfect post, I must admit.... (Mega)
To some of us IT IS! (Bucky)
.....since you were agreeing with TC's comment, that basically was concurring with what I have been trying to say....OH never mind.....
....bottom line - you go searching for the QTY of the musical experience as your priority at P&F shows, I respect that, it's great; I prefer to attend P&F shows seeking to maximize my entertainment value by dancing in the aisles with friends, catching a buzz and making the best out of what's being offered up on stage at the time. Yeah, sometimes the setlist is weak or the band is off, but with all other things being factored I can still say I had a good time. Just respect my perspective. That's all that I'm asking.
Maybe someday we will agree that we both thought a particular show was great.
Hey Mr Megabuzz, that post about 5 up (on 7/15) is the best post EVER that I have read on the zone and I wish I could write something that funny in 100 show reviews! Damn, that beats the hell out of 5 of the 9 shows I've seen this tour! By the way, I danced with the most gorgeous girl ever at Jones Beach for the first set, we were dancing off each other's energy, it was going real good, then the did Soulshine and I started lagging (but only a little). She felt my negative vibes, left and never returned. Lesson learned, kill more brain cells, be more primal!
Hey Sideshow, did you tape sunday?
Mr. Megabuzz, I echo sideshow bob's sentiment. you are too funny and too right on
>>>....hope everyone's next show "sucks" as bad as mine did at Darien Lake.....
Did I tape Sunday? Is a Bear Catholic? Does the Pope Sh*t in the woods? Do priests molest young boys? Do Republicans exercise their stock options and leave the company broke? Do Democrats propose legislation to take "In God We Trust" from the currency? Do . . (well, you get the point). Hint? whattzzat?
Actually, Buck, you will be forced to accept 12 copies of Toronto and Scranton and you must listen to them 100 times each before you can have "The Jones at Jones". Oh, yeah, and the Stella at Hartford tomorrow . . .
you're just cruel sideshow...although, it IS bucky after all...
for hartford i call: Days Between!!!
Oh, and the copies will be from the dopes next to me that ran Nakamichi shotgun mic's with windscreens on from the balcony 40' from the stage at Scranton. From the last minidisc in a chain of about 11, who all changed their discs at different times.
Oh, and with "Tons of Steel" on a continuous loop
you guys rule!
yeah, thats YOUS guys!
still laughing my ass off!
Tour thought for the day:
....didja ever wonder if Phil and the boys look out into the audience every night and think..."OH NO! not this same bunch of assholes again"?..."can't we do any better than this?"..."...fuck it!!....lets do an extended Tons of Stella set"....
u guys suck the darrien second set blew my mind
remember when the microphone kept falling off the molos boom stand. it almost hit him, and he still kept the beat.
Jerry always said - the New York crowds were the toughest - demanding, high energy, but at the same time there was a cocktail party buzz going on - no matter how much they gave, all they wanted was MORE, MORE, MORE! How little things change!