Anyone know if taping will be allowed inside the venue? I got great center seats from GDTSToo and would love to do an fob with my stand. I will be shaking my bones to hard to stand still with mics on me...
Who's all gonna be at this show?
It's my Hometown and I have the crash pad.
E-Mail me if your in need of a place to stay we're only 25 mins. from the venue.
I expect that there will be the standard taping setup -- first come, first served in the front center of the lawn. If you want to tape FOB, you'll probably need to stealth.
heheheheh... hahahah... I will be getting a hotel room to 'Fear and Loathing' for this show. Look for the tie-dyed freak with short hair yelling NUGGETS! in the parkin' lot.
Peace & Gravy,
Hey - does anyone know when the lots open
for this show?
Im intrested in any campgrounds or farmers letting people crash for a small price.
Im coming in from indy...and after the work out i got at Deer Creek...man my joints were aching:)
I think it would be better if i caught a little sleep before i head back..if i can sleep at all..
Well give me a Heads up and if anyone wants to hook up and smoke on lot or in the show give me a time and a place..its always 420 on my watch...
Any Info would be great..
Let the Good Times Roll
Peace and Love
lookin forward to this one, big time,, deer creek rocked start to finish.. can't wait to see what they do in my home state.. bringin' my youngin's (boys 13 and 14) to see aerosmith at blossom tonight,, july has been and will be a killer month for tunes in the midwest!
Ohhh Yeah, Can't wait til tomorrow & you'll see the Philzone flag & Reddy Kilowatt too. I was so hung-over when I left for Alpine that I forgot to bring the flag & then forgot to bring in Reddy.
Can't wait,Can't wait,Can't wait,Can't wait.
See you all tomorrow!
i just read (at polarisconcerts.com) that the venue usually opens 2 hours before showtime,, it's gettin closer! i'm right there with ya tapecat, i can't wait!!!!!
gonna be wearin the yellow hat again TC?
c ya tomorrow
ok, i read a bit further, lots open at 3:30, gates open at 3:30,,, my bad....
By Tapecat (Tapecat) on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 03:37 am:
Is there another way to get into the Chat page other than from the Philzone Homepage?
By Tapecat (Tapecat) on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 03:48 am:
I just tried to go to www.spinchat.com
It may be that if go to this site and register you'll be able to create the chat room for the evening.
I call the list into someone if you send your Phone number to my e-mail. If all else fails.
The weather at Polaris looks like it could be hit or miss. If it is hit don't let it get you down , that just means that we may get some rain songs.My wish list for polaris is: Box of rain, looks like rain, or unbroken chain. If I get any one of them I will be estatic!! Rain or shine it's all about what you make it. See ya at the show with the rest of the freaks from Cincy. " Freak Freely " HAIR !!
hey everybody....in the pine knob review section there was some discussion about bobby as an element (musical and otherwise) in the dead. i was curious as to what jerry thought about this. his opinion might clarify some of this. here is how the big man put it in a 1982 interview...
"Weir is capable of being a tremendous cop at times. It's something he knows about himself. In the Grateful Dead, if you don't have a sense of humor, you're screwed.
When you're working in a band, you have to try to let everybody have his own voice the way he best sees it. There are always going to be things that create friction. It's part of what's interesting between he and I. He's always going to make decisions musically that I'm not going to agree with fully, but I'll go along with them anyway.
But on the other hand, there are ideas that Weir has that I would never have had, that in fact maybe only HE has. That's his unique value: he's an extraordinarily original player in a world full of people who sound like each other. I don't know anybody who plays the guitar the way he does, with the kind of approach he has to it. That in itself is, I think, really a score, considering how derivative almost all electric guitar playing is."
so there it is. thoughts?
I think Bobby's a damn genius and the good and the bad make that up...There are times when he hits something and it's just like "holy SHIT, that was brilliant!" And then there are others where it's like..."ooooo...did he really just do that?!"
The same thing goes for every member of the Dead and it is one of the things that I absolutely loved about them...it was always hit or miss.
As a guitar player I am equally influenced by both Jerry and Bobby...one of the coolest things I think there is about Bobby is that he sites two people as the biggest influence on his guitar playing: Jerry (obviously) and Thelonius Monk...I just think that's great that one plays piano...and it helps to understand his style when you know that.
I said this in another thread...I'll never understand the anti-Bobs. I don't think they're wrong or don't get it, I just don't relate is all.
For good-form Bobby, listen to him on a late 60's Morning Dew...absolutely magnificent rhythm guitar work. Listen to a late 70's/early 80's post Estimated Jam...same thing there.
Good citation, First Tube!
Somebody mentioned Bobby's guitar playing and the mix levels of the 7-8-78 RedRocks show on one of the other boards. Examples such as that are the answer to the Bobby critics. Check out his monster slide work on Werewolves. I would also add 11-30-80 as a prime example. The end of Fire, typically a Jerry prime spot, is ever so carefully and deceivingly stolen out from under his feet by some sweet little riff Bobby keeps tweeking with. Meanwhile Jerry is trying to raise to intensity of his solo to recapture the finale, but its no use. The listener is left riding high above and far beyond the solo on this riff that trancends time and space. One of my favorite Fires thanks unexpectedly to Bob. Please post other fine Bob moments if you would, possibly on a post heading of its own.
This debate about "Lesh is More" is silly, when you get to the heart of it, "Weir all together!"
Hey You guys... I just saw Ratdog last nite for the first time (at Pine Knob) If I were you, and you could help it, I would not misas his set! Last nite was great & fun and i hope you get to check it out! Tell that Crusader Rabbit I said "Hello!" :)Mike
Kickin' down 1 last B&B session(Buds & Brew)............Then I'm Outtie......
and on to the SHOW!
Hard to Handle tonight!!!!!!!*please*
Hey y'all! Have fun! I am really sad to miss seeing B and P together. Hell, those guys are so tight, a simple click of Bobby's tongue after a certain verse could mean volumes to Phil. Those "secrets" are things only a few of our brothers and sisters are able to glimpse (and only in tattered reflections imho), but could theoretically cause varying "strange attractions" on a devilishly grand scale to take place within the audience. NFA~MAGIC
Enjoy the Show!!!
(just save Shakedown for Beantown)
I was at a show in the eighties and the dead were smoking on little red rooste, bobby pulls out a decadent solo with the slide looks over to Jerry as he's winding it down and smiles, Jerry looks back, raises his eyebrows, pushes up his glasses in an "as if" shrug. Bobby flips him the slide, jerry catches it and lights it the place royally. The band never recaptures the momentum for the rest of the show yet the solo, the image of the slide flipping through the air and Jerry snagging it, and then the massive solo after words, will forever immortialize them in my vessel.
Do not bash bobby, he was just a piece of the band. HE WAS AN INSTIGATOR... he would make things happen. I've seen where he pissed off Jerry and Jerry would make his guitar musically cuss out Bob adding ambience and tension to the show.
Listen carefully to the Truckin on Dicks Picks 1 and you'll know what I mean, I recommend headphones.
I remember seeing Jerry shoot Bobby a "look" and the screen that was broadcasting Jerry's face fizzled out for a second, while all of the other screens continued to transmit. It was a glimpse of God in man to this guy.
TC There is another way in to the chat. Go to Philzone.com/chat.html. When you get the login screen, if you cannot login, go to the question mark. Get to the spinchat home page. Login in, we told you to password yourself the other night, hopefully you did, and go thru the various menus until you get to Phil Lesh. Tap in. It is set up completely differently, but you use it the same way. Does pop you out into all sorts of funky stuff, but you can get back easily enough. Best part, it has need a smoke, and gotta getta beer icons.
kc moan/winners/maggies farm/easy answers, lucky enough/hell/tenn jer/sailor/saint/wheel/other one/bass/drums/so many roads/sugar mag/touch.
(wonder why phillip never comes out with bob's band).
Goddam...if I could get a sailor->saint it would make my show...esp. if it was Bobby & Phil playing it together...
What a great list.
Looks like Bobby's got his balls on the table...So Many Roads...wow!
>(wonder why phillip never comes out with bob's band)
Good question...and I bet the anti-Bobs will have quite a few responses fer ya!
Tom Banjo, that is a beautiful story...I can see it all happening...
Rock n Roll Blues>
Oxford Plains in 88, listen to the Crazy Fingers... if memory serves me right, Bobby was playing a tad slow and Jerry chewed him up with a massive wierdness...
Foolish heart in Boston 9-?-1993, Bobby makes some horse noises on his guitar which wakes up Garcia and makes foolish heart push the envelope.
A Pro-Bobby.. I remember a Hartford show in 87 or 88 where Jerry was a little loagy, and after a slow, sweet China Cat, Bobby ramped things up with a rocking Rider into an amazing Looks like Rain...sliding front and back up to the mic, he put on his best purple-shirted Springsteen and had Jerry in stitches...man he was smokin'..I'm really looking forward to the Meadows ...haven't seen a show since Knickerbocker in '91.
What's up with the setlist...no one tonight???? If anyone wants to post the list, the first to call me at 610-570-4725 can get fri, sat, sun and then holmdel, camden, merriwether post, and virginia beach up asap...sorry, cant make finger and jones beach...but the bus will go by fri mornin (early) and I WILL BE ON IT!!! Im psyched...like I said, first one to call can get it up, listen in, whatever...its a free phone, dig, all that....peace
I hope everyone is enjoying the show. Looking forward to the Meadows on Sat. Let the good times roll
has anyone heard about 2nd set? bobby needs to come out for the 2nd half some night.
Can we be serious?There would be no Grateful Dead without Bob Weir.These are the same people who think Warren is better than Jerry!My question is,have you people actualy seen the Dead?(this means you Jinpa!)Think of all the great tunes Bob has wrote over the years.Think of all the great set openers&closers(Jack Straw,Music Never Stopped)his noises from the never reaches of Space.The Dead was better than the sum of it's parts.They could take a song,any song,and just blow it wide open.That was part of the fun and adventure of going to see the shows.With that said,Phil&Friends comes close to that magic.If your thinking of seeing this band,GO!Don't expect to see the Dead,keep an open mind and you'll be pleasantly surprised.Any set lists?
yeah dj, i agree with you. if you took out a member of the dead it changed the sound. like after pigpen there was keith then brent. each time the sound changed. long live bobby;)
and since you were talking about songs bob sang/wrote what about wrs or black throated wind?
anyone got the setlist?
Here's the setlist
Rock n Roll Blues
*w Bob Weir
Mountains of the Moon>
Brown Eyed Women
Fire on the Mountain>
thanks wilso33. tomorrow night i leave for st. louis to start trey tour. woohoo;););)
can someone give me some info on mountains of the moon who sings it, tempo, etc. thanks & peace out
What a great evening in Sohio!
Shit man how the hell could I have been late in my own hometown? I don’t know but I was, However I still managed to get my usual spot for taping and did manage to bring the Philzone Flag! Yes Indeedy it was high but not wavin’, not a breath of wind to fill it. It was mostly Cloudy &Very Very humid, for Ratdog but the sky cleared and it got much better during Phil. Good to see a few Zoners Gentle Ben even had his shirt, I even met a couple DNCers for the first time. There was a curfew at 11:00 so keep this in mind coming up. I’d say the venue was like ½ full, plenty of room for everyone to do their thing. Speaking of which here’s a little tour story HOT off the press:
So were sitting there on the lawn within the roped off area for the tapers, watching the Phreaks during the start of Phil. Low and behold we (LadyTC & I, GB & his lady) were witnesses to a simul-puking of a ledgendary nature. A shall we say “Large”, and very “Shinny” due to lack of clothing and sweat, couple, must have munched quite a load of Fungus. Well all was good until it got to their heads, and they went from dancing to falling down in a cool 2 minutes since they appeared in front of us. Since it had rained earlier now they were encrusted in a slimy grassy & muddy coating and were starting to look displeased. Another 2 minutes pass and whoosh they were jetting. I’m not kidding either, it was Simul maybe even Synchronized (They got an 8 from me and a low 6 from the W.German Judge). Needless to say they up & left but I couldn’t move my rig so I was stuck right were I was. Not a big deal really it didn’t smell where I sat, and the people around them spread out. Everything was cool for about 30 mins. and in fact it had started to soak in some. BUT…Due to the show being only half sold out I don’t think very many people stayed put & that was definitely the case in this area at least with that first wave of folks. The Legendary Factor-Now were are watching this pile and here come some bare feet and go right in it, Dancing in it. I watched and it shocked me, but I thought “shit they don’t notice and how much of a bummer would it be if some guy came up to you & told you that you were dancing in spew and didn’t even know it?” So I decided not to say anything as I turn to mention it to LadyTC, I see that it’s not necessary as she sees it and is cracking up over it. Due to the location of the incident (was that a bad chioce of words ?)This little bit-O’-comedy never got old as new people came and went.
Ratdog- It’s been awhile since I’ve seen Bob and………………….They were all right! Their set definitely had its highs & lows but overall I would have to say that I enjoyed it. The highlights for me: Maggies Farm, The Sugar Mag & it very much surprises me to say the Hell in a Bucket. Lows: KC Moan, Winners, & The Other One. The other one could have been better & Rob W’s bass ditty in it was really cool, but it was kinda screechy & as much as I like Karen he was just too much. Loved the way he played in TOO but now he’s even more out front and it got to me after a while. Time Aprox: 1:59
On to Phil….
Set 1: After Bobby had played TOO in his set and then Phil opened the set with just a little jam of TOO the comparison flood gate will and has opened on that. I’m not going to get into that can O’ worms for sure but I will say they are much different sounding. From the Jam we get Rock n’ Roll Blues which was pretty straight up as this song goes no extra jamming and then they stopped. After a short break Bobby came out and joined in for Birdsong>Cassidy>Birdsong. Now I didn’t feel he was bad in the mix at all, and I love the tune choices for sure. I wouldn’t care for a steady diet of it though due to song selection that would most likely happen, but enough on that, Let’s just say he was Good. Next up the Highlight of the show for me the Alligator>Jam>Masons Children!!!! The Alli was a little shorter than spring 2000 but Wild ! The jam that followed had a very heavy feel and the here comes the Masons CHARGING up in your face. Lot’s of folks were lost to what tune it was but it didn’t matter it was HOT and everyone was getting off big time on this set ending tune. Time Aprox: 1:05
Set 2: There are many tunes that should have some sort of Jam to open them and Passenger is IMHO one of those. From the calm of the set break it is good to have a build up before bombs drop tonights S2 jam opener worked just fine for this & then the house was groovin’ along after they got into the Passenger. A nice transition led into the Mountains of the Moon, with Phil kinda mumbling along in the lyrics till near the end. I though that Wharf Rat would be next but was fooled and after a short Jam they busted out a B.E. Woman. As I said in my NYE review (Which was first time played) this song would continue to get better and man oh man has it ever. Yet another tune that has reached the “On Fire” status. After a break with Much chit chat up on stage here comes the Wharf Rat, which was a little too powerful I thought, Warren cut it back just a tad bro. So next I hear Scarlet but again I’m fooled, actually more like delayed, since they broke down the start into a Spacey Jammy thing. After a few minutes of this here comes the Scarlet, a loud a proud Dead tune, sent to shake up some spines. The Fire that followed was over the top, a simply ripping version, the little Scarlet Coda to sandwich the fire was a surprise for sure. The set closer Midnight Hour has been Phil-a-Sized and was a few minutes longer and way way stronger than I’ve seen before.
Encore: Brokedown Palace was wonderful, I missed Jer’s voice a lot, but the new treatment of massive harmony in the band was just chilling. It’s reach the level of the Bid you good night and was a great way to end a really good show in Ohio(For a change) Time Aprox: 2 hrs
I normally pack up in like 2 minutes flat but I had to slow down tonight and wait till I got my B-Deck from a FOB patch. So as I wait Cutler came up to me and gave me the soundboard setlist, what a great way to finish off the night. No hassles at all, the shakedown was in full force and it was a SHORT ride home( again for a change). This is the last review I’ll write till after I get home so See you all on the road & ENJOY your shows!
did phil just bust out brokedown.....or has he done it before(i dont mean with the dead)
P&F did a beautiful Brokedown at the Gorge 6/17/00
these setlists are starting to look a little tired with same ole songs and just the order scrambled
Give 'em a little slack, though, Jinpa...they haven't *all* been playing for 40 years. Besides, it's looking pretty well mixed up, especially considering they've only been playing together for less than a year AND two bands are drawing from the same repertoire for the past two nights.
Thanks for the visual.
Grinning from ear to ear lmao.
the music is alive and hot!!! as shown at polaris
ahhh kraaazeekat, the voice of reason. i dig you man. however, i do have to correct you. warren and molo have been there since 99, herring since last april and pf in general since 98.
i was going to check out merriweather. with the dead and garcia, i used to love merriweather. it was a great venue and a great smaller alternative especially to the stadium dead shows. however for pf, one of the things i've liked the best is seeing them in tiny intimate theaters. so to see them in the summer sheds is a giant step UP in crowds. last year merriweather was the one pf show i really disliked. horrible sound, boring jams. maybe i'll wait till the fall for the small stuff and see how it turns out. i know they're playing well, they usually do, but the stuff seems refried.
You dig me Jinpa?..Really?..That's swell. I'll finally sleep well tonight.
Are you from around Merriweather? That's my hometown. Did you see them in the spring at Constitution Hall? I liked that...that was a fine show. I hear ya about small venues, but I have to say the lawn can be bliss! Especially if it's as empty as these other shows seem to have been.
Wow, complaining that P&F's sets look "tired"
seems somewhat ironic. After all, the Dead's sets
throughout the years contained a lot of repeats as
well. The late '60s sets were often very, very
similar, they played Estimated something like 49
out 0f 50 shows when they first broke it out, etc.
It was rare when the Dead could play more than a
three-night stand at a venue without some repeats.
Sure, P&F are playing a lot of the same material
over the course of the tour, what did you expect?
A touring band will have a solid working "core"
of songs that get rotated heavier than others,
then a number of songs that are the "special
treat" variety. Newer songs (whether new
compositions, new covers or new "old" dead songs)
are likely to be in heavier rotation than some
other songs simply because the band was probably
playing them a lot rehearsing for the tour.
I haven't been to any of the shows yet this tour
(2nd row dfc at Great Woods tomorrow, though) so I
can't speak for sure about the quality of play.
However, I've seen this lineup since their first
appearance (One for Woody) and it is something
special. Go to the outdoor shows and enjoy
yourself. I'm sure the music will be worth the trip.
my turn to correct.
this current configuration first played together in september of 2000. they've only been playing together for 11 months.
as for warren having been there since '99, that's only partially true. he played with p&f in october and november of '99, then not again until a guest w/ the pevar/herring lineup in april '00 and not consistently until this new, incredible grouping.
thanks cinderoo...I didn't feel like getting into it...
ahhhh deadheads... you can always count on them for nitpicking on dates and what not. i'm so glad to oblige! ;-)
oh those partial truths. now we're gettin into clinton/condit country. watch it cinderella.
ok. warren "has been there since '99" is not partially true. it's totally wrong. ;-)
dressed in yella, you're killin me
>>>i know they're playing well, they usually do, but the stuff
Ever see the Dead JP? Now they were predictable. I could guess 80% of what they were going to play & where they would play it on any given night if I saw the previous 2 or 3 night's setlist. And I'm not claiming to be The Amazing Kreskin here. Anyone with half a brain could have guessed.
If the show setlists are so similar, tell me what they're going to play Friday.
Jinpa, like you I prefer the smaller more intimate venues. When the Band was together I would prefer those Dark Dank hockey arenas (Spectrum - Omni) to the vast expanses of Buckeye Lake, Giants Stadium etc. But, you will never know what you're missing until your there. You know al to well reading the set list does not tell the true story.
I leave you with this parting story. It was the summer of 95 and bad shit was happening everywhere starting off at Highgate, VT. A cloud just seemed to be following the band everywhere they went. Culminating in the July 3rd show at Deer Creek. As you know the next night was cancelled the place was trashed and we all wondered whether we would ever be back there again. My friends took off a day early for Riverport where more bad shit happened and I flew back home vowing not to return until the fall MSG runs. Luckily this sweet voice of reason called me from Riverport during Eyes and asked me to reconsider and meet her in Chicago. I am so grateful that I listened to that voice of reason.
Don't miss the opportunity to go and celebrate life…
Hey Jinpa: PHIL's saving all of the hottest arrangements of all of the tunes you ever have wanted to hear for Merriwether. You name it, they're going to play it. They're going to blow the shit out of that shed. It's a Tuesday night; have fun watching Ally McBeal or whatever is on on Tuesday.
hound, WOW, i see why your name is brokedown. I almost broke down reading that. what a story. maybe you're right, maybe i should reconsider. did that sweet voice turn out to be your wife?
spectrum was also one of my favorites. i know this may sound weird but it just had the perfect.. ambience, is that possible, for the dead. i don't know what it was about that place, the shape, the smell, or what, but there was an undeniable electricity there. I saw some sick shows there.
That bird sang a while and then flew away...
I don't know what it was, but the Spectrum always seemed Hot! MSG was the same way... ;)
85' Philly Spring!! That last night was the wildest night EVER at the Spectrum... that 3 song opener still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I hear it. Surely you would have to say that was unpredictable AT THE VERY LEAST. Wasn't it Easter too? That statue of the hockey player outside was dancin around after the show. Merriweather will be the celebration of the last of the 7 ancient planets to close the tour before it gets peachy. Personally, I like peaches in the summer....
Hi everybody, I was at Pine Knob and Polaris. Pine
Knob was the first time that I had anything less
than a supremely good time at a Phil show. I
missed almost all of RatDog at PineKnob, caught
most of it last night. This is in no way a
negative bashing of either band, just the same
commentary I would do if SCI or someone opened.
While Phil's sets were much, much better (for me)
last night, I think that RatDog was actually
better. I have seen many show's of both an like
both for different reasons, styles, etc. They are
just two different bands. Phil has been my
favorite since Phil'n Dylan last summer.
I agree that PLQ went more towards Bobby when he
sat in. More than anything, I think they met in
the middle. Regardless,
BOBBY IS A GREAT 'FRIEND'!!!!!!!!!
My daughter (11) and I had backstage passes for
Ratdog (between the two bands) and were able to
meet Mark, Rob, Molo, the Jays and Warren. These
guy are absolutely FIRST CLASS! Mark is definitely
the best. We have been back stage twice and met
him roaming around in the lot once and he stands
around and talks and hangs out for as long as you
will. Met Bobby once and he was OK but not very
friendly. Was really hoping to meet Phil but no
luck. Didn't even see him walking around.
Somebody asked the RatDog tour manager if he could
get a message to Phil or something and he was very
clear that they are "guests on this tour" and are
very sensitive to that fact. According to a few of
the RatDog people and venue security people,
Phil's security was extremely tight. Everybody and
all access was locked down tight. They said they
felt it was very abnormally so but did not know
I have heard a lot of complaints about Polaris
because it is very comercial and they are very
hard nosed. I had only been there for Furthur 98
and (fungus) did not notice much. A friend of mine
actually refuses to go to the venue. Anyhow, Last
night was great. They held everybody out of the
aisles only until most of the people got in but
then were non-existent. Peace
....then flew away....
sorry. sounds like it must have been a sweet song while it lasted. and you'll always have the last stand at soldier.
Jinpa, You Bet! But, it was for the best. We're all learning as we pass through...
Reviews anyone? I'm really interested in what a Brown Eyed Women>Wharf Rat, & Brokedown sounds like without Jerry?
I did the show last night. I'll start by saying that I had a great time, the scene was great, the weather was good, the goodies were on hand, etc.
I thought Ratdog played a solid set. I thought the highlights were sometimes found in unexpected placed, like Bucket, Maggie's farm, etc. And this being a P&F board, where most people seem much more concerned with noodling and jamming than song structures, lyrics, etc. I'd have to say that the 'dog had some good stuff working during jams in Bucket and Sailor>Saint.
After seeing a few P&F shows now with various lineups, I came away (again) feeling like they just didn't have it all together. The band is definately made of some very talented musicians, and the guitars certainly were on fire at times. But I kept feeling that the band would be a lot better served if they moved on to non-Dead material, perhaps focused on jazz or even just instrumentals.
IMO, the jams had their highs and lows, but too often the band just seemed to wander around and around, leaving me wondering if and when they would make it back to the next verse. Then when they finally did, I found the renditions to be rather weak. Warren, who I love with Gov't Mule, seemed like he lacked the vocal restraint needed to pull off a Wharf Rat. I think his voice works better on the rockers. Ditto the Brokedown encore. It was like the vocals were there, but they didn't have the tenderness that the lyrics demand. Phil, Rob, and Warren all seem to have the same issue, IMO. To me this is a big missing link that this band needs to fill. I will say that the harmonies sounded a lot better than past shows, but backing vocals only take you so far if the lead isn't happening.
That's not to say there weren't some strong points, like Passenger and Midnight Hour, but by and large I kept feeling like I was on a roller coaster where the jams went from really cool > tedious > boring, back into a brief revisiting of the song, and then the cycle would start all over again (for 20 minutes).
And for those who like to throw stones at Bobby and slam him for the "cheese" factor, what is your definition of cheese??? There was definately some cheese to be found in the Phil sets. Robb's vocals on BE Women, and pretty much all of Fire On the Mountain. Bobby does dabble in the cheese, but he does it as fun (i.e., Misty, El Paso, etc.). I get the feeling from Phil's more serious demeanor that he doesn't realize he's being cheesy. Scarlet>Fire are two songs that are built on their groove, and the versions last night tried to change those grooves. I didn't think it worked that well. Kudos for trying, but trying isn't always succeeding.
Yeah, I know it's not the Dead. I've also heard the people complaining about the comparison being unfair. Whatever. Maybe that's why I think that this band would be much more enjoyable if they just left the Dead material alone and moved on to creating new music. Not reinvented music, but new music.
I was really looking forward to the Bob/Phil portion of the show, but Birdsong and Cassidy are two songs that I've just heard too many times. I realize that is more my problem, but regardless it left me without much excitement during that portion of the show. Oh well, luck of the draw...
So don't confuse my point. It was definately a fun day, and worth doing. Maybe not for $45 a ticket, but still fun. And the band can definately turn it on, they're all overflowing with talent. But after repeatedly going to shows based on the hype that "this new lineup is totally amazing", I left thinking that the hype was a bit exagerated. They're all great musicians, but they're not THAT great of a band. Good, but not great.
>>>That statue of
the hockey player outside was dancin around after the show
Isn't it Rocky Balboa?
It seems like a good time for me to chime in on this Bobby/Phil thing. To point, I miss a rythym guitarist. I saw all 4 Cali show this summer and by the last Greek show the dueling lead guitars were wearing heavily on me. I was dying for one of them to start freaking strumming while the other played lead. Instead it was trading off leads, leaving one guy, standing there, not playing, watching the other guy play...how much sense does that make? If I want Allmans I'll go see them! My buddy tried to get me out to Red Rocks but I was done with the scene for this precise and only reason.
I heard bits of Crusader and was so fulfilled by Bobby's flowing rythym. I missed it, but I profess to be a Bobby fan - always liked his songs and energy. Phil is letting him sit in only because it would appear very strange if he didn't; he's indulging Bobby and the fans, and I'm sure that Phil considers this to be a throw away portion of the set, although how could Music ever be a throw away song? I'd like to see these shows for Ratdog...um, would you rather have the Biscuits?
For the record, my impression after being up close is that Jimmy is superior for this vein of music (tone is right on) and I'm glad to see that this board is FINALLY coming around to this fact. Ideal lineup (it'll never happen): Phil, Molo, Bobby, Jimmy, plus Warren on backup vocals...
Ikoman, thanks for sharing you thoughts on the show...
And now totally off the subject: Gov't Mule on Tour starting 9/1/01 till 10/27/01 not much room for a fall tour is there?
>>>Instead it was trading off leads, leaving one guy, standing there, not
playing, watching the other guy play...how much sense does that make?
It's been my experience at the Phil shows I've seen that most of the time they both play leads.
i was at the polaris show and i can't believe more people haven't been talking about the brown eyed women. rob's voice was just perfect for this tune and phil took all the lines about the "old man" which i thought was nice. the groove was on and the energy was excellent. true it's not exactly a jammer but it had me dancin' like i was getting paid. peace...a.j.
Jgar... I don't know about you, but I thought Jimmy's strumming during Unbroken Chain at Berkeley was superb.
man...i hate hearing people bash good music....i thought that show was unreal...it might not be phish...or the grateful dead....but they're having fun playing music...entertaining people....isn't that what its all about? why don't you guys that are not impressed with phil and his buddies just sit back and relax...let the rest of us dance...
agree agree...cant phil and the guys just play a damn song once in a while? i feel like every song gets deconstructed to the point of nothingness 2-3 times per song! finally it comes back around. these kinds of jams are superb technical and soulful displays, but are such a challenge to absorb that they become tedious after a while. weren't the lyrics and vocal interplay one of the most badass things about the dead? boasting of women and poker and singing of love and the river and the stars and the moon? I guess a band led by a bass player and lacking a true singer is bound to confront these problems, and I agree with an above post. Start playing lounge jazz. Blow 'em away phil.
Why don't you try coming up with new stellar jams, 3 hours a night, night after night? I must admit the songs may languish at times (except Low Spark), and the rhymical underpinnings may not be what they should, but you try rocking out heart and soul (unlike most bands who soulessly play the same setlists over and over), in full rock mode, as I said, show after show. Phil's been doing it for almost 40 years, trying to match your expectations, expectations which really emerged when things slowed down (late 1970's) and everything got technical. I would say there is good in being observant and knowledgable, though one can take it too far and destroy the Magic that is part and parcel of the Unknown... A more straightforward way to say it is that you are amazingly spoiled and goddamn idiots for your piggish ownership and lack of perspective. You should be darn happy Phil and Bobby are still with it and touring and damn happy that the Dead toured as much as they did (whence your spoiled attitudes come). These aren't the old, long, repititious Dead days anymore, be very thankful for what you get and count your blessings (as we all, I think, know).
I can appreciate your opinion, and it sounds like you have been seeing the PF gigs once a year and that is cool. But, how could you ever want these guys to play non dead material? Would you actually go all juiced for a show if you knew they would play all new stuff? Phils new stuf sucked with the dead, ( except occasionally i liked "shoe fits")
These guys need to play dead or most people will not go. This is a cover jam band, lets face it. Its like John Entwistle playing Who songs and being the lead guy- its fuynny when you think of it that way- but really, this band has its limmitations, but they pull it oiff for me. They are not a band that will grow into anything new with new material- fuck Phil is almost 62years old!
I am interested in this band pumping out new stuff that is dead, or seeing them put seques together unheard of, like help>slip.eleven>franks. I was in Boston in 1991 for a help>slip>fire and that was the most creative the dead was then. As for the voices, well it sounds like you miss Jerry and I hear ya, stells, broikedown, attics, dew- they are missing something that is soooo obvious- its Jerry! I miss him sooo much, but as has been said here,we just keep on truckin on...
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. You're right, I only catch one or two P&F gigs a year. For one thing, I have a good job and a family, so it's not that easy to get away like I used to. Beyond that, I have yet to see a P&F show that inspired me enough to want to go on to the next gig.
I understand why P&F pretty much has to play Dead material, and I understand that this will probably never change. I guess I just think that with this level of talent, the band could be really great if they broke outside of the Dead material, which I think they only do a mediocre job at. I mean, everybody agrees that they are at their peak when they're jamming and creating new music within the jams, not when they're within the verses of the songs. But you're right, they wouldn't fill the seats unless they continue playing Dead.
BEN- I don't think people reviewing the show, positively or negatively, has any effect on your ability to enjoy the show or dance. I was perfectly "relaxed" at the show, and had a great time. I just didn't think the band lived up to the hype, and I'm entitled to the opinion.
ERIK- Spoiled attitudes? So if one is not in total agreement that Phil is God and every P&F show is awesome, we're spoiled? Get real.
Bucky and Hound,
You guys are correct about Rocky being out there, but the hockey player also stands guard outside the spectrum as well on the other side. I saw him last summer when i was at the stadium and cruised by the old venue for nostalgias' sake. Another great building is the Hampton Colliseum... ahhh, you can't go home!!! DAMN IT ;-)
That, so far in my life, is the best indoor venue that there is! Well, at least that size venue.
>best indoor venue< yea but how many shows have you seen at hampton since the dead? maybe it's the band, not the venue.
I never saw the dead at Hampton...only other stuff...they got banned before I jumped on da bus :o(
maaaddoggie, actually you are correct sir. i saw da dead at hampton alot. and it made sense. instead of having to see them in 20,000 seat arenas, you could travel (from dc) about, what, two hours or so, to this place, half the size, general admission, in the middle of nowhere with hotels within walking distance of the joint, with the beach an hour away. what's not to like. even got my car towed down there and the story alone was worth it. didn't even bother me. anyone who was there at warlocks, obviously, will never forget the two nuclear sound explosions, one following the first dark star notes in 5 years (july 84 greek), the second being after the show was over and you could still hear people screaming and clapping outside for a mile. unreal. (also the first h/s/f in four years oakland 85). little or no secutiry inside. spinners and twirlers everywhere. a true candyland for deadheads. i just haven't been back since and probobly never will.
Hampton 89 The Warlocks gets a lot of pub and rightly so. But Hampton 87 and 88 were also amazing runs. How's this: 3/27/88:
1: Iko, Rooster, Stagger Lee, Ballad of a Thin Man, Cumberland>Uncle, To Lay Me Down, Let it Grow.
2: Sugar Magnolia>Scarlet>Fire, Estimated>Eyes>Drums>GDTR>Miracle>Fantasy>SunshineDaydream.
They liked playing there and they played long shows.
You don't have a copy of that show, do you? It's one of my long lost favorite 'legs. Your email doesn't work from the link here, so if you've got it and want to trade, shoot me an email. I'll be taping some P & F, Ratdog, and Disco Biscuits (Hartford, Saratoga, Merriweather) and have access to LOTS of Dead and some Phish.
Eric Fuller, 3/27/88 Hampton can be found at gdonline.com. It is an outstanding soundboard version which can be burned onto CDs. And, that show was absolutely killer! Best show that I saw out of my 111 attended.
man you guys are crazy...this is the most jammin band to come around in a long time maybe ever...and thats why we go, to see the mysterious happen...for some of you I may suggest the next EAGLES reunion tour(ha ha)...I heard they rock..the quintet nail the songs out.. that Brown Eyed Women....woooo weeee..group harmonies are better than any dead related incarnation i can remember...and they take it into the unknown...not the familiar...and the main reason to watch this band is that they PLAY together, the music is taken as a whole..and the sum of the parts are better than each individual part...and if you listen you can hear how each person is playing off the other adding to the whole (thats why I like the Dead and have never been an Eagles fan)it's almost like the zen approach to music...they listen and interact in the moment...they take themselves and the audience on a journey...they don't have any idea where its going as much as we do...(and someone called it noodling and thats a pet peave of mine as well I'm sure it is of many other of you)...that noodling as you call it is improvising and takes skill, study, practice, an open mind(and I'm not just talking about solo improvising but group mind improvising)...imagine you are playing in the band and from each second to the next things are changing jimmy may be sliding up to A while warren is walkig down ect..., each decision you make will effect the whole..everything is opening and breathing from one second to the next...and when everything locks in together... a sort of timelessness is acheived...you would have to understand your instrument so well that you could adapt to several changes in key/tempo/ect..from moment to moment...(beautiful...the reason that set the Grateful Dead apart and the reason I would go)
"its hot. damn hot. you could cook stuff in your shorts. crotch pot cooking" ...r williams
yep, that pretty much describes ohio on this steamy summer day..sweaty n nasty..the parking lot scene was in slow motion, everyone looking a little red..i gave a bunch of cd's away and then settled into hanging out with some cool neighbors from Pittsburgh..we could hear Bobby start his set with a nice version of kc moan as we were parked right outside the venue. i still had a sandwhich to eat and a beer to drink..
i was just about to head into the show, in great spirits when i stopped to ask a traffic worker a question and heard some terrible news. folks, if you don't like unpleasant stuff skip the rest of this paragraph. he told me 2 dogs had died that fday from being left in their cars..i felt like someone punched me in the stomach..i went back to the lot and told every dog owner i could see and asked them to tell every dog owner they see on tour. gawd that was heartbreaking..
i walked in about half way through weir's set..i don't know how to describe ratdog's sound, except the words "urban industrial" rise to mind. no idea why exept theres alot of strange melodies taking place, sqwaks, honks, and hoots..their jams don't really follow melodic ideas like Phriends, its a whole other deal..when i last saw them i was impressed w/karan, i thought he played more straightfoward but now he seems to hit sour notes on purpose just to send things in an unusual direction..kenny brooks, the new sax guy seems like a good player but to my ears they miss dave ellis and his fat baritone melody lines. i know i did..great to see Bobster in good shape, though..
I honestly don't remember much about the opening jam so i won't comment..r+r blues was good start and again, it was cool to see Weir sidestage checking out the new tune..he'd whatch the band awhile and then he'd scan the crowd to see the reaction..when he came out to join Phil, you'd think the Indians had just won the World Series, the cheer was huge..
Same as in Pine Knob, Bob led the band through the Ratdog version of Cassidy with its weird changes and he'd hold fingers up to signal them..i thought it was very gracious of phil to give bob this role in his band though i was hoping for more a combination of their ideas..Bob sang most of Bird song and Phil took a line..again, Jimmy and Warren seemed happy at first to just strum chords and add supporting ideas at first..Weir was taking one of his very strange leads when IT happened..it didn't sound so great at first. then Phil gets an idea, follows behind Bobby's lead with a different approach and it sounds fantastic. like a bit of grateful dead..it started to gel and Phil started to take one of those walking basslines that starts with a high note then moves down the neck. as he did that he took a classic lesh posture, standing up very tall with his neck extended and looking over the band.just then, bobby hit a chord and snapped his head back, classic weir. right after that he looked back at phil and they both smiled..great moment..bob got so lost in the jam he didn't notice when warren and rob started to go back to the "don't cry now"..phil sang the last part and Bobby seemed very amused how Phil has changed the last line sequence, with a looong dramatic pause right before "snow and rain".
i should also point out it is very cool to see phil use his microphone to relay jam ideas to other band members on the fly, during a jam, like a psychedelic conductor. who else could do that? what a great use of all his ideas and talents. A couple of different shows he was motioning to Warren between songs how he thought a song should go, waving his hands high, then low. he cares deeply that it gets done right and isn't afraid to share insights..right after that, at the beginning of the song, warren and phil locked eyes for a long time, smiling, like "its cool".
The Alligator and following jam was probably the highlight for me...very funky..the end of the verses seemed a little reworked, different...Masons Children brought the set home with great energy...
The 2nd set is a bit of a blur honestly, but i do remember it was very hot and cold, not the rolling ride of the past few shows...it was a bit opressive w/the humidity, and i thought it affected the band until that Midnight Hour, out of control, some crazy energy, like they were venting frustrations at the weather..
there was a cool moment i remember sometime in the thick of an improv jam..warren stopped a second to wipe off with a towel and then paused a short while to listen..then he came in with a fresh idea, a very cool riff and jimmy followed right along, loving the idea..this band is amazing that way.
I apologize in advance for adding a non-review post to this string, just trying to correct an error from a previous, non-review post on this string.
Hampton, VA 03-27-88 (soundboard) and many other fine shows cannot be found at gdonline.com. The correct site is:
Sorry for the misinfo.
I got through most of the above posts so figured I'd chime in. I hadn't been to Polaris before but a couple people I was with had and they said that security was cooler and much easier on vending in the lot this time around. We missed Bobby's first few songs and came in during Easy Answers. I didn't have any problems with The Other One. Bobby put twice as much space in between the lines in each verse. Either it was on purpose or he did it once and had to keep doing it so the first time didn't sound like a mistake. I really enjoyed Wasserman's "sitar-like" jam, but maybe that's because I play bass and was interested in the effects. The Wheel was great too with a vocal jam at the end that could have gone on even longer as the crowd seemed really into it. This is only my opinion, and it's not all positive. I liked Karan's soloing on TN Jed, but the tune was a complete mess. Bobby laughed at the first screw up but after awhile it didn't sound funny but just like they didn't know whether they were playing an instrumental, verse, chorus, or what. The So Many Roads was nice but I didn't enjoy the ending at all. No matter how Jerry flubbed the verses the end of the song always made it OK for me, but Bobby gave the song no fanfair at all at the end. Unfortunately I thought Touch of Grey was even worse. We were just a few rows behind the soundboard and the tune started out quietly. That was intentional as they were just kind of sneaking up on the song. It did finally rock at the end but the signature bass, keyboard, and guitar lines that make that song were just not there. I like rockabilly, but Karan's tone here seemed completely wrong. These are just my opinions. Hell, my sister liked Bobby's set much better because he played songs she knew and Phil's psychedelia gave her a headache. Of course, I saw a few more dead shows than she did. Anyway, I haven't heard Cassidy and Bird Song too many times to be disappointed by this choice of tunes. I've never heard them played just as they were, by this configuration of guys, on that day, at Polaris, etc. Come on, if you get the Dead at all you have to appreciate this after everything that's happened. It's also not just another Bird Song after Cassidy when Phil sings "Something like a bird within HIM sang." I don't think he's singing about himself or Bobby (or Janis) at that point. The second set was ragin' energy from the get-go as usual. It's hard to believe that anybody disliked the Brown-Eyed Woman. I felt like that one got the biggest ovation of the evening. As for the Scarlet/Fire changes, my friends and I believe that Fire was put into a "seven" timing. We counted it as they were playing. I wanted the Midnight Hour to last at least that long, and loved the sentiment of Brokedown. GO AND HAVE FUN 'CAUSE IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN FOREVER!!!
I can barely remember this show. I remember all sorts of teases before Mountains. The Bob and Phil collaboration was ok but not too impressive. You see a couple shows in a row and they start to blend together in your mind. Mason's was hot but not as good as Alpine. That may be because Alpines was a first for me. I need the tape to be sure.