Ratdog Opens whoohooo ... perhaps he will play more then 4 songs with phil ..hehe


peace.

Hey now! I'll see you at Clarkston.... I can't wait for this one! I'll be the short haired guy with the lizard on his patchwork pants! See ya there Nick!
Peace & Light

To be honest with you, I don't think you really want Bobby to play more than a few with Phil. It's great seeing them together and all, but Phil's band does not have it's gameface on when they're playing with Weir; they go into Weir mode. Trust me, PLQ can't do what they've been doing with Bobby up there. Now, maybe, in the future, if he practices long and diligently with these guys, he can be worked more solidly into the extravaganza. But for now, any playing time you get from Bobby subtracts from the real-deal PLQ's playing time. These guys ain't fukkin' around!

Hello everyone,

I'm very excited for the Pine Knob show. It's my home town and to see Ratdog and PLQ in the same venue on the same night gives my heart a nice warm fuzzy feel to it.

I heard lovelight teased at Alpine and last night at Deer Creek. I wonder if we'll get the full blown tomorrow night.

I wish you all a great show and happy times :-)

Lloyd

Anyone know anything about camping for the night of the show at Pine Knob? I really want to go after going to the Alpine Valley show, but want to find some camping for that night. Never been to the DTE and know it might be kind of hazy =) after this show. Wooooooooowuuuuuuuuu Going to be one long and crazy night, crazy crazy night.

Any help would be great. email me if you have more info.

Hey Now-
Did anyone notice the set list from Deer Creek, and how nearly everyone of the Dead songs that were played were Jerry tunes?(the only exception being the set-closing "Rider",which is a cover itself)
Prior to the tour, Phil mentioned how each nights songs would be a reflection of a story, or a particular theme. Maybe Phil was honoring Jerry's spirit, or invoking his presence. Remember too, that Jerry recieved a death threat prior to Deer Creek in '95.
To tie this in further, in the "Odyssey", Homer invokes the muse to "sing" to him to explore the exploits of the grand Odysseus. Phil might have been invoking the spirit of Jerry, by channeling his songs into the show.
Any thoughts out there on this?

kinda of like when he made a point to come back out and say "And Leave it on!" at Somerset after Lovelight. Many looked confused, i got a huge grin on my face. Was a great gesture on his part

After a little research I have found phone numbers of 3 campgrounds in the Clarkston area. Holly is a town a little north of Clarkston.
Yogi bear's campground also has a website. Hope this helps...

Campgrounds:

Groveland Oaks County Park
(248) 634-9811
Holly Rec Area State Park
(248) 634-8811
Yogi Bear's Jellystone Park of Holly
(248) 634-8621
http://www.michcampgrounds.com/jellystone-holly/

Thanks alot man. I got two replies in 3 hours to asking that question and am a little shocked. I didnt know there were that many people in tune iwth the board here. Thanks for the help. Maybe we'll run into each other. Was at alpine, and somerset. This will be my last phil show for the year i belive.. seeing Leftowver Salmon next week at a campout. I bet this is going to be a show to remember though. Ratdog and those crazy guys called Phil and Friends. WooooooWuuu! Ill be in a rasta hat and a tie dye ;) Have a good show everyone.

I also really like that Phil came back out and said that after lovelight...I got a huge grin on my face just reading about...actually, I haven't put that album in the 'ol box in a LONG time...I think I will tonight!

> but Phil's band does not have it's gameface on when they're playing with Weir; they go into Weir mode.

Whatever! Phil used to have this other little band, and I don't recall Weir holding them back at all. In fact, the last few years he CARRIED them. Not to mention he wrote half the material...

Just a reminder that the Dead and the Dead's music wasn't just about Phil and long jams. Long jams were just one piece of the puzzle, and one of the problems with P&F is that they are missing some of those other pieces. Weir helps fill that gap. That's not to say that Phil's TRYING to emulate every piece, but it's why his band doesn't have the magic that the Dead did. They just have good jamming ability, like a bunch of other bands, and they do it to mostly Dead music. But nobody had what the Dead had.

For fairness sake, Ratdog does a fine job of providing some of the pieces, but they don't have the whole equation either.

The Dead and their musical legacy is all about the sum being greater than the parts. If you wouldn't rather see Bobby and Phil hammering it out together, you're only getting PART of the picture. If you're getting any of it at all.

Does anyone know what time Ratdog starts tonight at Pine Knob?
Phil start times?

Sorry, but Phil's band is much better musicians than the Dead ever were. Of course they're not THE GRATEFUL DEAD; they'll never, ever be replaced. The GD was a once-in-a-lifetime, right-place-at-the-right-time, alignment-of-the-planets kinda thing. That magic aura will never accompany another band.

I go see Phil to see Phil's new band do what they're into doing right now. Not to see some nostalgia show or try to relive a past I'll never recapture. I like what Phil's band does now. Bobby throws a wrench in their spokes. Like I said, maybe if he practices long and diligently with these guys they can welcome him to the machine. Personally, I like seeing Bobby perform with the band that his heart is in. The same goes for Phil. Not just some "pieces" thrown together in an effort to solve some unsolvable "equation".

BTW, the main piece to THAT puzzle and solution to THE equation is GONE. Nothin's gonna bring him back!

Hey Guys
Just looked at the list for Pine Knob, Hell just look at the last two years worth of pure genius Phil & Phrends have given us. There is much discussion about the Dead vs. Phil vs. Bobby and I say JUST ENJOY IT. Jerry IS alive and well in the music folks-anyone at the John Lennon birthday show at the Beacon last year knows exactly what I'm talking about. As for Bobby carrying the Dead like someone suggested above gimme a break!! Bobby wants to be a pop star. Keep on waiting for him to break out Lazy Lightnin while Phil and the boys treat us to Unbroken Chain-St.Stephen-Dark Star-Eleven-King Solomon's(!!!!!!)Cosmic Charlie- You name it.

The ticket and ticketmaster show Ratdog starting at 4:30 pm. I would think they are going to be punctual. Pine Knob has a curfew of 11:00 PM.

If someone wants to call me @ (219)340-4035 anytime before Bobby starts (4:30 P.M.), I will arrange to call with setlist as soon as the sets end. The first person that calls that will agree to post the setlist right after I call will get a call immediately after each set (including ratdog if you want). Oh, by the way, I'm liking a Dark Star>Jack Straw>Dark Star opener for Phil w/Bobby.
What do you like????

Well, I'll never understand the anti-Bob's. I'm with ya, Ikoman and Loctree!
Bobby's a genius in his own respect...and besides that the motherfucker sucked it up and played a show the day Jerry died. I'm sorry, but to me that says something about his spirit (not that the others don't have as much). At any rate, it's gonna take a cancellation to dissappoint me at the three shows I'm gonna hit (and *luckily*, two are w/Bobby!)
What I like is a bunch of people up on stage together, enjoying the music and enjoying each other...honestly, I've got my list out, too, but it's mine to impose upon myself...I don't think I'm gonna care what they play, so long as they FUCKING MEAN IT (which they will!!)...I do like that opener, though, Loctree!

I think I must've missed those shows that Bobby carried. I do remember a show where Bobby stepped on the emergence of a Morning Dew and brought out Sugar Magnolia. As fate would have it this would be the last time any of us would ever have to hear this song by Jerry.(Soldier Field Sunday July 9, 1995)

Let's not get caught up in our underwear, Bobby has been a source for debate for years, even with GD itself. PLQ is a present and evolving experiment, we'll never have what we once experienced.

Have a great show and Grateful Spirit ;)

Bobby's Set:

Victim (Bobby on acoustic, Rob, Kenny Brooks)
Candyman (Bobby acoustic, Rob, Kenny Brooks...rest wandered out during the song)
Black-Throated Wind (Bobby switches to electric at the end)
Jack Straw
Dark Star (1st verse) ->
Odessa->
Dear Prudence->
Dark Star (2nd verse)->
Minglewood
Eyes->~Bass Jam->
He's Gone->
SICK Wasserman solo->
Cassidy

This is coming to you from Tony C. (Loctree) via me...
He said of his 15 or so Ratdog shows, this blew them all away...
I'll post Phil's set when he calls later
peace
-E

Sorry, I had to run and eat, just wanted to mention the rest of what Tony told me...
Bobby went on pretty much on time (around 4:30) and played for ~1hr 45-50 minutes or so. At the start there were VERY few people there (he said he thinks around 400!) so he was able to move right up...well, I'll let him relate all that to ya!..Anyway, by the end of Bobby's set the pavilion was about 3/4 full, with the lawn still pretty empty. I hope I'm so lucky at my 3 shows!

4:30 on a weekday..... Makes it kinda tough to be ontime. Looks INCREDIBLE though!!!!!! Thanks!

Hey now, I am currently on a cell phone listening to the play China Cat, which my friend Erich who called me said was the 2nd song they played with Bobby. Obviously the sound on the cell phone is not that great, but I can feel the energy of the band and the crowd. Here comes I Know You Rider! It sounds awesome! Woooohooooo!!!

Here's what I heard via the cellphone (not sure if China Cat was the opener):
Jam>
China Cat>
Rider
? (slow mellow song that I don't recognize & my friends don't know)

My buddies say everyone's confused. They should just listen to the music play...

THAT RATDOG SETLIST LOOKS REDONKEY-KONG-ULOUS!!!!
I can't wait for FRI...(and sat and sunday!!!)

btw, I am at work right now (in San Rafael, CA), which is my excuse why I'm not at the show at Pine Knob (special place for me because I saw my first-ever concert there, Bob Seger in about '76). I did see P&F at the Berkeley Greek on 7/1 and it was superkickass! Wish I was at the Knob tonight; I'll add more updates if I hear from them again.

Candyman !!! He's Gone !!!
Weir is pulling out some classics, hope it continues.

PLQ:

1st Set:

Jam ->
Cold, Rain, and Snow
China Cat Sunflower* ->
I Know You Rider*
Tastes Like Wine->
Jam ->
Bertha

* w/Bobby

Tony was less revved after this set, from the sound of his voice...he was a bit bummed about the length, but I think it bodes well for the second set...seems like there's alot of time for a killer second set (2 & 1/2 hours or so!)

I'll post when he calls back...

peace

Just to sum up, this is what our friends have been fed so far tonight:

Ratdog:

Victim (Bobby on acoustic, Rob, Kenny Brooks)
Candyman (Bobby acoustic, Rob, Kenny Brooks...rest wandered out during the song)
Black-Throated Wind (Bobby switches to electric at the end)
Jack Straw
Dark Star (1st verse) ->
Odessa->
Dear Prudence->
Dark Star (2nd verse)->
Minglewood
Eyes->~Bass Jam->
He's Gone->
SICK Wasserman solo->
Cassidy

Phil and Friends 1st Set:

Jam ->
Cold, Rain, and Snow
China Cat Sunflower* ->
I Know You Rider*
Tastes Like Wine ->
Jam ->
Bertha

* w/Bobby

My GOD!

Phil' first set is short, but I have to say it still looks good...I have a feeling that Bobby was out on C,R,& S from what you other folks have posted.

Another call & a snippet of Comes a Time!

St. Stephen!

Scott,
Are Comes a time and St. Stephen for the first or second set?

Strangeranger,

Those were from the 2nd set. not sure what else they played; that's just what I heard when my buddies called. Here they are again, and they're about to play the encore...

BOX OF RAIN!!

saw deer creek sun. terrapin and stella blew me away!

nice to see two people with prompt updates ;-)

does anyone have the full 2nd set?

Scott,
Thanks for the quick updates! Much appreciated.

second set anyone?

setlist setlist setlist!!!;)

Phil and Friends Set 2:

Jam (started slow and pretty->got funky, dropped into)->
Comes a Time ->
Jam (all that was 31 mins) ->
St. Stephen ->
Revolution
Help on the Way ->
Slipknot! ->
Blues for Allah ->
Slipknot! ->
Franklin’s Tower

E: Box of Rain

The venue was ½ full and during the second set they allowed the lawn down under the pavilion for the second set! Sounds like a good deal to me!
The whole second set was ~ 1 hr 50 mins, making the whole thing ~ 2hrs 40mins of Phil.
In Tony's opinion the jams were a bit more directed, melodic, and tight then at Deer Creek...(he was at both)...remember kids, this is just an opinion...love to hear yours, but no yelling =\;o)
I’m really tired right now so I’m gonna let him fill in the blanks here when he gets online…

So here is the incredible edible dish served up by this mythical tricycle ride tonight...

Ratdog:

Victim (Bobby on acoustic, Rob, Kenny Brooks)
Candyman (Bobby acoustic, Rob, Kenny Brooks...rest wandered out during the song)
Black-Throated Wind (Bobby switches to electric at the end)
Jack Straw
Dark Star (1st verse) ->
Odessa->
Dear Prudence->
Dark Star (2nd verse)->
Minglewood
Eyes->~Bass Jam->
He's Gone->
SICK Wasserman solo->
Cassidy

Phil and Friends 1st Set:

Jam ->
Cold, Rain, and Snow*(?)
China Cat Sunflower* ->
I Know You Rider*
Tastes Like Wine ->
Jam ->
Bertha

* w/Bobby

Phil and Friends Set 2:

Jam (started slow and pretty->got funky, dropped into)->
Comes a Time ->
Jam (all that was 31 mins) ->
St. Stephen ->
Revolution
Help on the Way ->
Slipknot! ->
Blues for Allah ->
Slipknot! ->
Franklin’s Tower

E: Box of Rain

Whew! You lucky dogs!..Can't wait to get my Phil and Bobby on Saturday and Sunday!
good night to all and to all a good night...I'll catcha tomorrow...

phat;) thanks krazykat

what's up with the venues not getting much of a crowd. deer creek was not very full at all. the shows have kicked a** !!

Oh, just to clarify, they let everyone under because it was raining...sorry...I'm even more tired than I thought...
sure thing Discotrav!
Sleep well all!
Hope to see some of you at Hartford!

Oh, just to clarify, they let everyone under because it was raining...sorry...I'm even more tired than I thought...
sure thing Discotrav!
Sleep well all!
Hope to see some of you at Hartford!

Wow...these shows are awesome....

Photos of Alpine available at photos.yahoo.com/skoorb22

I had great seats and got some great shots...enjoy!

I'll post some shots of String Cheese tomorrow.

Skoorb

By the way...Tony C (Loctree) needs a shout out for paying such good attention, tracking down the soundguy to get the name of Tastes Like Wine, etc...he is the brawn behind the two of us...Good work SOLDIER...
k, now I'm really out.

>>>what's up with the venues not getting much of a crowd.

Remember, Phil's been playing indoor places that hold 2-5 Thousand & most of these outdoor places can hold 15-25 Thousand. Eight Thousand would be a sizeable increase, but in Great Woods or The Meadows, the place will look empty.

for some reason i heard the dead and hippy sceen was calm and peaceful, but my friend got suckerpunched on the hill for no reason, FUCK YOU ALL YOU FUCKING PEICE OF SHIT MOTHERFUCKERS, yeah, maybe most of you are peaceful, but last week in the mosh pit at a slayer/pantera show everybody was calm and cool, and here we get assaulted, i hate you all you fucking asshole MOTHERFUCKERS

have a nice nite....

moving on....

sick show!

Glad to see he's having a good night...

Anyway, I agree that Deer Creek was pretty empty. I wouldn't even really say empty, maybe just not packed because there was a decent turn out. But I thought that Alpine was packed. I know it didn't sell out, but there wasn't an empty seat in the pavillion and the lawn was kickin...

Setlist for tonight looks amazing!!

Skullfuck,

I have to agree with most of what you said. The lot at any show can be sketchy. It's best to be careful. It dosen't help if you look like a punk/skinhead or whatever. As for Pantera/Slayer, I'm going to see them on Monday. I've seen them several times without any problems, as you say. I understand your feelings. We are not all assholes though.

Nice Photos of Alpine skoorb

Ya'hey...
Poor skullfuck's friend...sorry he got hit.
yeah, nice pix skoorb

sorry,

i don't hate everybody, but it surely sucks when i take a friend to the kindest, coolest show on the planet and he gets floored by some random asshole... is it just detriot?

Could be detriot...could just be some random asshole. At soldier field in '95 (second to last show) I heard a guy VERY proudly relating how COMPLETELY he had beaten the shit out of someone. It happens...drugs + alcohol + an asshole anyway = hapless guy getting slugged from time to time. It sucks...

By the way, about 2 minutes before I heard that guy telling his story, I saw two cops VERY proudly throw a nitrous tank into lake michigan. That sucked...then my girlfriend and I watched as like 10 heads tested their skills at scuba diving...you could see it at the bottom, they just couldn't get it up...
Those Chicago shows were pretty weird...aside from the obvious...maybe *because* of what was obvious later ;o(

"10 heads tested their skills at scuba diving"...

That is HILARIOUS! I can see it now.

Just tossed a painted metal cannister into the Great Lake?!? Like THAT's a viable solution?!? You should've placed them under citizen's arrest for littering! It's amazing how stupid "the people in charge" can be...

They sure did...right in there...not even a second thought...actually, they did it like it was the most intelligent & fun thing they had ever done in their lives...it was pretty strange.

Damn. I guess some police just don't give a fuck about the environment. Unkind....

Wow! What a great show last night. The weather was hot and the music was hotter. 4th time seeing Phil with friends and fifth time seeeing him all together and i think this was my favorite...and the best....but what do i know. Loved the Comes a time and Blues For Allah....and everything else that i can't remember right now...great show. Lots of energy

Today is the first time that I've ever read this message board, and what a bummer it turned out to be. I just don't understand why people deem it necessary to compare P+F with Ratdog and, moreover, to speak of Bobby so disparagingly. I could go on a HUGE rant defending Bobby and all of the enlightening and enjoyable moments I've experienced listening to his singing and playing. But for now I just want to point out one oft-neglected fact about Weir: he is a prolific songwriter. Just remember how many great Dead songs came to us courtesy of Bobby. Furthermore, his new album is full of gems. As much as I love hearing both Phil and Bobby play Dead songs, neither of these bands is going to go anywhere if they simply play Dead songs. They both need their own material and their own identity, and in my opinion, Evening Moods is a very commendable first effort. Sure Bobby can be cheesy, but all the members of the Dead could be knocked down for various reasons. What I really appreciate about Bobby is the fact that he is putting together a very solid, tight band that reflects his personality and that, I think, can jam in a very stellar - if different - way. On a final note, I take great exception to the notion that the Dead's level of musicianship wasn't even close to that of the members of Phil's band. Please, put in a '72 "Playin'" or a '74 "Weather Report" or a '77 "help>Slip>Frank" and then try to make that claim. I'm not saying the Dead were worlds apart, but to make that judgment seems exceedingly premature to me. Neither Phil or Ratdog should be compared to the Dead. The Dead were a thirty year evolving monster. Until they've been around awhile, both contemporary bands are just blips on the screen in comparison.

Well said, Matt...Bobheads unite!..no, but really...You should check out the 7/18/01 thread...there's a good quote there from Jerry regarding Bobby towards the bottom.

If people are up and rested, I'd love a long break down of last night for lunch break reading material...

hey what do you know. someone is bummed out by reading the zone and i didn't even post yet so i didn't have anything to do with it. nice going guys. way to bum people out. where's the love. can't we all just get along.

About the Nitrous incident:

Nitrous = hippie crack. Bad news all around. I've had friends DIE and break various parts of their bodies from fish-outs.

Grnated the cops shouldn't have tossed the tank into the lake, but nitrous is NOT cool.

You might as well just smoke rock. It's easier to transport, and you don't have to lug a fucking 100 pound tank around with you.

I'm not saying I was upset it was taken...just that it got thrown in a goddam lake...It can most definately be very scary stuff. Never had anyone die or break anything, but the convulsions/throwing up on themselves I've seen. Very ugly...but still, stupid frickin' cops.

Jinpa made me laugh <:-D

Oh yeah....Giants Stadium parking lot in '90 or '91...a friend of mine took a big huff from a balloon and went straight down like a fucking rock...I heard the "crack" when his nose hit the pavement. And then he started to fish out...very ugly all around, indeed.

Oh yeah, I wasn't condoning Nitrus, but, rather condemning the assenine pollution the American Great Lakes...I'm sure it's probably covered in Zebra Muscles now any-how...

Hey, I studied zebra muscle migration in college!

>studied in college< hmm, novel thought, maybe that's why i'm baggin groceries.

Does anyone know anything about "Taste Like Wine"? Is it a cover? Who wrote it? Who sang it last night? etc...

"Tastes Like Wine" is a Warren song (a slow, haunting ballad) that is on Gov't Mule's "Life Before Insanity" album. P&F have been playing it here and there since the fall...

Re: Mattg: Yes the Dead and pf are worlds apart,,the Dead being the NY Yankees and pf toledo mudhens. and forget about 72-74. put on anything, 74-80, 80-90, 90-95. Period. The Dead had Jerry Garcia and oh about 30 years practice. I'd rather see the Garcia Band on a hot night than pf because i'd rather see Jerry than Warren Haynes and that other guy anyday and I'd rather see hear Jerry singing Jerry songs than cover people. HELLO? but since j's not here i'll go see the next best thing. but for gods sake stop comparing. THERE IS NO COMPARISON!!!

Hello fellow music fanz,
I haven't seen such a great show since I saw Bob at the Bluebird in Denver back in 96. This was my first Phil show and the first time I saw Phil and Bob together since my last Dead show at the Palace in 95 or 94 (too many brain cells gone to remember). I read a lot of people talking abouthow these shows shouldn't be nostalgic and feature more of the artists varing and changing musical forms, but damn, I was almost in tears wathcing those two play together.I agree in some terms with these people, but I went to the show with my old college friends who i saw all those great shows with back in the day. It was like I was back there again, except without the acid. I can't wait to see more Phil shows, I've got a few boots, but being there made it real.
keep it real
Phil

ps: and if i had the chance to see Jerry singing black peter one last time or pf doing a viola sandwich you'd better believe i'd be singing looks like everything leads up to this day...if i only had one more chance..

>>>I saw two cops VERY
proudly throw a nitrous tank into lake michigan. That sucked...

AMEN!

Jinpa: You are correct, sir. There is no comparison between P&F & The Dead.
P&F is better than the Dead were for the last 20 years at least!

Can anyone confirm whether or not Bobby sat in on the Jam -> Cold, Rain, and Snow?

Bucky, you are wrong, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. P.S. Nitrous can be fun, just find someplace comfortable and grassy, make sure you have friends around. I've done a lot of nitrous and never flopped around

Krazykat:
Bobby was definitely not onstage during the CR&S. As soon as Cold Rain was over, Bobby tried to get onstage but couldn't get there with all the gear in the way, so he went all the way around to the other side of the stage and pretended to crack himself in the head with his guitar as if to say "that was dumb". After Rider, he and Phil briefly embraced and in classic Bobby style he tried to go the wrong way again when he was done and then pretended to hit his head with guitar again- It was Funny!

No, Bobby came out for China Cat>Rider to answer your question. For the rest of the posters on this board this constant comparing going on with Bobby and Phil, Phil and Grateful Dead is a waste. I feel fortunate to be able to attend a show like last night at Pine Knob and to see Darkstar, St. Stephen, Blues for Allah, Black Throated Wind and Help on the Way>slipnot>Franklins all in a days performance. Both bands played excellent. Wasserman is one incredible bass player, his solo was amazing. Truly enjoyed Bobby's set. Just look at the set list it was as good as it looks in print. Phil's set was also enjoyable ( see the list). I saw this lineup at MSU and they have really developed very good chemistry since then. All I can say is enjoy the shows for what they are and don'y look back. The history will always be there for us to hear but what is going on now is something to be excited about.

I wish I was able to hit more shows on this tour. If you think about going, go!!!! You won't be sorry.

One other note, when the Dead started playing Darkstar again I would usually miss it by one show. Last night I got a Darkstar and along with that a ST.Stephen, Blues for Allah and 3 wonderful sets of music. Take it for what it is. Great Fucking Music.

Thanks for clearing that up folks (about when Bobby came out)...welcome back Tony! Hope you had a good mini-tour!

Just a quick note to my fellow fun loving concert heads. Phil is fun and RatDog is fun too. What is important to remember is that this whole thing is about fun not comparing which band is better or if either one compares to the GD. The reality is that neither of these bands could fill the smallest spot on the GD spectrum, but are enjoyable to see since there is nothing else similar around. I think Phil and RatDog both add value in the void of post Dead life, but let's keep it real on adulations. These are still basically geezer rockers playing for the masses

Forget Phillip and his lads. Forget rodentmut. Forget the Dead. Give me the Garcia Band anyday. All Jerry all the time. That's what I really want. I have an After Midnight/Eleanor Rigby/After Midnight from DC that is freezeframe schematically unadulterated pure uncut ROCK.

I never started going to Dead shows until 1989 and, even though I saw some great ones, I saw others where Jerry was way out of it (7/8/95 anyone?). While we only have our tapes and our memories of Jerry to remind us, we have TWO very good bands that have risen from the ashes. Let's be honest, after Jerry died, did you ever expect to hear Dark Star, St. Stephen, Blues for Allah, etc., ever again? And from a group led by a former Dead member? I'll never know what it was like to be a Deadhead in the 60s and 70s but, thanks to these two bands, I can at least have a taste! Wish I could have been at Pine Knob last night, but I was at Deer Creek and, thanks to Bird Song, Morning Dew, and Stella Blue, I got my dream Dead setlist six years after the Dead died! We don't know how long we will have either of these bands so let's enjoy it while it's here!

You want your dream setlist, go see dso. they'll give you your 1960/70 setlist if a setlist and scene is all that you're after.
rodentmut??!!

I have seen three P&F shows since November Breslin with Dylan and last night's was by far the best. The band has stabilized with this line up and has begun to gell, obviously. I would weigh in with others who have critcized comparisons between P&F and Ratdog, or either with GD. One does not compare apples with oranges. Regarding the specifics of the phantom "Pine Knob" appearance I was most impressed by the work that the group has done on their harmonies. The keyboardist has a very strong voice for certain material, and of course, Warren's vocals are very bluesy and appropriate for the material he does.The harmonies were really great. There were moments when one could almost hear Jerry in there between the lines. In criticism, there was a fumble during the solo in Revolution between Phil and the drummer where the beat went a little off for a second and the glue almost let the parts separate. But that seems like a minor point that might have only been noticed by other musicians. Afterwords Warren went over to Phil and stomped out the timing for him as if to demonstrate what had gone wrong. It was proof positive that our heroes are human and it was a moment that I savored. Its just great that the ball is still rolling, that the wheel is still turning, and that we can push ourselves a little bit further than we done before.
But, hey now, did anyone else hear Ratdog end with Sugar Magnolia? That is what it says on their site! I didn't hear that, and neither did any of my friends. What's up with that?

The Official Ratdog site "officially" fucked up the setlist. They did not play Sugar Magnolia or So Many Roads. For those who care, I'll be posting reviews for Alpine, Creek, and Pine Knob with comparisons and I'll try to elaborate on the information I gave to Krazykat last night...talk to you later.

I did not think that I heard So Many Roads either, but I was not sure about that one. I thought they might have played some small part of it in the jam that seemed to follow the bass solo before they went back into Dark Star. Oh well, guess the officials must have picked up the list as it was supposed to go, not how it actually went. Sometimes time considerations force ad hoc decisions and I would suspect that is what happened; they had to truncate the set to fit into the time slot that they were allotted.
Still, it was an excellent show on the part of both bands, and neither is somehow superior to the other. Frankly the Southern flavored Dickie/Duanne inspired solos of H&H are nice but they are too much an Allman signature to get them much mileage if they are trying to develope their own sound or identity. Face it, neither Ratdog nor P&F would even exist were it not for 30 years of GD. They can't afford to deviate too far from the program!

What a weird show ....i was on the lawn ..and tripped the best and hardest i ever had .and right in front of me a Guy was painting a picture of every thing ...it was awsome ...


it was cool to get outa the rain ..

far as bobby and phil went ...

well i think bobby took the show .. Phil is fun to listen to but Warren and jimmys guitar tone and they just didnt do it for me ... they jammed way to long and it was some what pointless ..it was the same scales over and over .. there was good parts of it ..but i play and i understand what they were doing but ..they both dont need to play lead...warren played some rythem but not much ...

now i know im gonna get bashed for that ..but i was there and pepole started to sit down ....go get drinks ...and became bored ... with phils jam

and me and about 12 pepole around me noticed this .. warren and jimmy didnt give bobby any room to play ... and a head told me in 30 years of seeing bobby play he never 1 time seen him acualy reach down and turn up his guitar on his own .... so i dont know ...

but i enjoyed it .. but i think phil was way better at Deer Creek ..


peace.

rat-dog.com posts the on-stage setlist, ratdog.org posts what was actually played

>a head told me in 30 years of seeing bobby play he never 1 time seen him acualy reach down and turn up his guitar on his own...

Naw...watch some videos...he plays around all the time...volume swells for "violin" effect, etc...But I don't doubt that he was lost in the crowd...it would be hard not to be...three guitars are hard to balance.

A little more on the PLQ show...I really love the venue, great landscaping, waterfalls and lots of trees and grass. I did notice that there were more drunks at this show- a little rowdier than most shows. Before the set Phil and them were joking and Molo and Rob were laughing real hard so I figured there would be high energy from the band. I wasn't disappointed. Set 1 started with a beautiful, slower JAM- not the "in your face" jams at Alpine and Creek. I was wondering where Bobby was. COLD RAIN was next-this started the obvious rain theme. Well played-good opener. Then Bobby came out and joined for CHINA>RIDER. I liked Phil's versions better at Deer Creek better. Didn't need a repeat but Oh Well. No one knew the next song so at setbreak, I asked the guy that kinda looks like a miniature Warren, who tunes his guitars and stuff before the show, what it was and he told me. Very nice guy, you'll see 'em. TASTE LIKE WINE was nice, he had played it at Deer Creek acoustic. Then they jammed some more and went into BERTHA- Rob sang great and we all danced! @ Setbreak they let everyone in the pavilion due to the rain and very low attendance. It lead to a better vibe during the dance songs. Set 2 was GREAT! JAM>COMES A TIME was a treat. Warren handled vocals nicely. 2nd ST.STEPHEN in 3 shows but can you see too many Stephens?- I don't think so!!! No 11 though-bummer. Into REVOLUTION - lots of smiles and screams on stage-FUN! Then the HELP>SLIP>ALLAH>SLIP>FRANKLINS I was hoping for-all done wonderfully. FRANKLINS SMOKED!!!!! A nice BOX OF RAIN for an encore and I can't wait for Fall Tour. BTW, at 4:15 P.M. I counted the people in the pavilion. It was easy- 229 people. When Ratdog went on, the place was 1/5 full and that's a kind estimate. What's that all about?????

Whoever thinks I bashed Bobby needs to go back and read my posts. I didn't say one bad thing about Bobby. A few months back I defended the shit out of Ratdog because I had been very impressed with a local performance of Bobby and his boys. And right now, I'm scheming my way to Memphis in September to see 'em on my birthday. So, read more than a few lines into my posts to see where I'm coming from instead of firing off your half-thought-out replies to what you think is "Bobby bashing".

Did I love seeing Bobby play with Phil's band at St. Louis? You bet. Is Phil's band playing to it's full potential when Weir joins 'em? Hell, no! That's pretty obvious to anyone with a discerning ear.

As far as hearing Jerry do Black Peter one more time, that's a silly question. The better question would have been would you rather see PLQ with Bobby or not? Considering that I spent a lot of dough to travel to see the PLQ, that's what I want to see, not the PLQ accomodating Bob Weir.

As I said, Jerry's been gone quite a while now. Both these guys, Bobby and Phil, have moved on now and seem to be very happy leading their own bands. They're both content with the paths they've taken. Time for some others to move on, too.

Phil's band IS THE SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!

hey now....

Back from pine knob and thought i would throw in my .02

It was really hot and humid and I didn't mind the rain, it wasnt a total downpour just steady for about 1 1/2hrs.The scene was OK. I was dismayed by the amount of people offering molly(rolls,e whatever they call it where you're from.This was the first show that no one offered any doses. I didnt want anything but it was strange none the less. Security in the lot was nonexistant, it had been very strict last time I was there(98 TOO) when they made people dump their beers out and tried to shut down vending etc etc.I had a nice spot on the lawn to the right of the tapers. My younger sister and her 2 friends drove from upstate NY to meet up. Saw Phil's bus outside my hotel but to no avail did not meet up with the thunder god.On to the show... I like the changed lyrics in CR&S. I was really surprised they opened with it I was calling a help>slip>frank but I got it later :O) 1st set highlights for me were China Cat>Rider w/Bobby and Bertha which really got everyone shaking their bones! They let everyone into the pavilion at set break we cruised down but I decided that I didnt feel like being elbow to elbow so we backed off and went in search for water. OH yeah the water. $3.50 a bottle and they won't give you the lid! If youve been to the knob then you know how steep the hill is and if you set the bottle down it's sure to spill! My friend refilled his from the drinking fountain and it was all brown and nasty so we ended up shelling out another 3.50 oh well. So a 16yr old is telling me I can't be trusted with a 1" peice of plastic to keep the water in my bottle and I tried to reason with her that I was a grown adult and pretty sure I could handle the responsibility but she held onto her mighty plastic cap like it was a gold coin and grinned knowing that she had the won this arguement whether I liked it or not. 2nd set was very spacey and I was hoping it was going to be longer than the 1st. Comes A Time was a really nice break from the guitar deluge we had all night. Warren's voice really fits this well.Then a looong spacey jam that I thought would never end(not that I was complaining!) and WHAM! St Stephen that got everyone moving, whooping hollering, spinning etc. Smiles all around. I was hoping for the 11 but Revolution was a nice surprise. The segue was very smooth. Everyone was still high from St. S and was really feeling good when Warren kept yelling "ALRIGHT! ALRIGHT! ALRIGHT!" while jamming out really hard. Help>slipknot was very good and got really spacey into BLUES FOR ALLAH! You never know what's gonna pop up next with phil. Franklin's was light and bouncy at first but ended up with Warren and Jimmy grinding the hell out of it! Phil gave the donor rap and told us that he loves us being there and we complete the circuit between them and we need to keep making this beautiful music together. Right on Phil! I knew the Box of Rain encore was coming with the days weather. It was nothing spectacular just a straight up Box.(no flames please)Overall a great show. Ratdog played a pretty solid show. Note to bobby: Don't ever segue of out Dark Star into Odessa evr again it sounded like crap! I didnt like how they chopped up Dark Star...The mother of all songs and they sliced it and diced it throughout the set. I really don't think ratdog's sound fits Dark Star anyhow. Dear Prudence was really great. Victim was a little shaky but I like it better electric (this was he 2nd time in 2 yrs Ive heard it acoustic the other was Greensboro TOO '00)Jack Straw made me dance around as did Eyes. He's Gone was mellow and very nice and they did the vocal breakdown at the end. And the Wasserman solo!!! The bombs he was dropping made my brain shake around in my skull! Cassidy was well played and extra special because my sister really wanted to hear it. We'll that was a bit long winded and my bottle of Pale Ale has run dry so if you've decided not to go see Phil YOU HAVE TO GO!
Peace & Light and I'll see you on the flipside!
Adam 12

I hope I don't get slammed for saying this
(please?) but I felt that Pine Knob lacked the
energy from the last show I saw in Chicago in
October. There were huge slow spots where
people were actually sitting down. But on the
other hand, you seem to forget the lulls when
an amazing jam like St Stephen gets everyone
spinning. Thank you Phil and Bobby for
keeping it alive.
Peace : )

talk about night and day...the weather was steamy and humid in contrast to the last 3 shows and after Weirs set it started raining light but steady so it was also soggy..

i had a good seat, great view, and it was very cool to see Bobby backstage joking around during Cold Rain and Snow..he socked himself in the chin and then hit his forehead w/his guitar. i took as kidding about the power of Da Bombz de Lesh..during the jam, Bobby was signalling for changes, 2 fingers, 4 fingers, as they played Ratdogs tight, if less adventurous, version..Warren and Jimmy seemed a bit unsure at points, how to blend in with Weirs unsuual eccentricities..it was great to see them onstage 2gether and at moments that old chemistry shone through..at the songs end, bobby looked a little frazzled, hugged phil, and skipped offstage looking like a ballet dancer in his swashbuckling white longsleeve shirt w/puffy sleeves..it was hilarious..Bertha ended the short set loudly ..

2nd set was a whole other ballgame...i agree the jams were much more focused than deer creek, volcanic at times...they really hit some extraordinary peaks, especially before and after st stephen and during slipknot...

comes a time...what a great way to start a 2nd set, momentum built slowly but surely and by the end of Revolution the crowd was in a frenzy...Help on the Way>Slip was amazingly well played, with Slipknot getting spacey early on, then moving through some interesting spaces, then The Riff..Blues for Allah! this was so well played it was mind boggling. they did the whole thing, not just the theme or any part of it. during the meltdown passages phils bass was moving right through my body..whew..Franklins resolved the mystical tension built to this poiint with its upbeat scales never sounding more fitting and enlightening...

box of rain was the perfect encore this night..peace

Can someone tell me why on the circular screen on the top left of the stage at pine knob there was a queen of hearts? Of the 7 shows I saw it was the only time there was an image on that screen. thank you

good call, chuck, i noticed the same thing..she was holding a staff with an infinity symbol in her left hand and there was something very colorful to her right..her crown had 3 jewels and they matched the planets-stars in the sky...

I haven't scoured these reviews, but can anybody say if Bob played the same tired riff he's played since 1970 during the transition "clamax" of China>Rider?

Just curious. . .

This show rocked. I thought the China Rider was incredible. First Bob/P&F collaboration I saw and I was wishing he would stay up for the whole set. (A thought that never crossed my mind at any of the others I saw...) St. Steven> Revolution....Phuck Yeah!

A note about the post show scene. Apparently someone was feeding a strangers dog and the owner accused him of trying to steal it and beat up the guy (yes, beat him up for feeding his starving dog). At least 3 people were chased by cops for reasons I don't know. One time the cop fell flat on his face and the guy got away. Somewhere around this time bottles were thrown at cops and thier cars. This of course, brought in reinforcments with pepper spray who sprayed many a head and night sticks were flying. I didn't see any of this but it was going on only yards away from my car. So I told my riders to "get the f*** in the car" and we left.