HOWDY FOLKS, I know that Idaho isn't exactly on many of y'alls tour schedule but If your close by or planning on making the journey, let me know. I have three extra reserved tickets that I won't be able to use. sob, sob. Would hate to let them go to waste, so I'd be happy to send them to you. Post a message today on this thread and leave me your e-mail address. and I hope to see you the next day in Bozeman. If you have any shows to trade for the tickets that would be great but certainly not necessary.
THIS IS NOT AN APRIL FOOLS JOKE!!!
Peace and enjoy the shows all! We are so very lucky to be able to say...
"THANK YOU, FOR A REAL GOOD TIME" PHIL
This would be a dream come true to see Phil , I'll come to Bozeman the next day and meet you. Live in Salt Lake, an old time fan who was dissapointed at Phil not coming through> Paul
CANDYMAN 1st TIME!!!!!!
set 1>jam>cold rain & snow>going down the road feeling bad>st. stephen tease>friend of the devil>welcome to the underground>stephen tease>she said>bertha
set 2>Jam> Cumberland (fullstop, Phil walks up to the mic, 'Dam that WasHOT' ) Hard To Handle> Stephen Tease>Brown Eyed Women> Alice D Millionaire!>Candyman!> Viola lee>full Stephen Intro>Viola Lee> Golden Road
Candyman! Candyman! Candyman! Brokedown!
alice d millionaire?????? What the hell is going on here? Am I still asleep? CANDYMAN?
Well I will check back again in the morning to be sure you weren't just a dream of mine.
Maybe it will seem real as the sun shining on my face.
The band that never stops amazing you!
ok, where are the reviews?
>The band that never stops amazing you!
Sounds like they're about ready for CO! ;-)
Should be a great B-day for you Lord Henry; hope we meet up 4 your B-Day.
Could one of you hum a few bars of Alice D. Millionaire for me? I don't have any Matrix '66 tapes handy.
Damn! What year is this?
The St. Stephen tease was like the April Fools joke, everytime they played it, the tease would last longer...
Review: Great show, Cumberland blew me out.
There is nothing like a good Jimmy lead into Cumberland to put a huge fat smile on your face. Case in point, Hershey!!!!!! Big fat Hershey's kisses on everyone's faces. What a setlist...Colorado here we come.
Fresh start to a Fresh New Year.
With this band its like my yesterday's are all behind me. I've got a new light in my mind.
I can't really define it but it is like some sort of magic sign or something.
Prepare to be zapped.
Here are my two cents on this amazing show. My first Phil show with the current lineup. It was great to see so many folks visiting from out of town. I hope you enjoyed Boise!
The first sign that this was to be a
special evening was that feeling of anticipation that I hadn't experienced
in quite some time. Walking into the venue, I had to weave my way through
the tie-died and dirty flock of heads milling about outside the venue.
This was something new to the Big Easy, and something Boise hadn't seen
since Phish came to Boise State in the fall of 99. I was happy! Phil and
the band came onstate at around 7:45, 15 minutes after the posted start
time. It was cool to see Phil milling about side stage. He seemed to be
rallying the bad, maybe giving them a pep talk or soemthing before the
set. He came onstage to a thunderous ovation. I don't think I could do
each song or jam justice with words, especially now as I write this with
the post show glow still fully controlling my mind. The Cold Rain and Snow
was an interesting choice for an opener, considering it had been a
beautiful, sunny, warm early spring day in Boise. It was also cool to hear Phil's version after hearing Ratdog's breakout on
Friday night. I prefered Phil's, even though Bobby had a stronger command
of the tune vocally. The bands jammed Cold Rain seemlessly into GDTRFB,
which ended with a short Big You Goodnight intrumental coda. The St.
Stephen tease was the first of what was to be four April Fools teases. This
one, which melted after the two intro notes (you know the ones) into FOTD,
had the place uproariously wild, enough that I didn't recognize FOTD until
the place quieted down. The second half of the first set was comprised of
two new tunes that were well receieved. She Said, She Said had a
decidendly St. Stephen-ish feel, and I'm not sure if it has something to do
with the heavy tease going into it or if that is just how the song is. The
set closing Bertha was a highlight. I had been hoping to hear Phil play
this from the day I ordered my tickets. It work well as a set closer, and
it was a nice suprise to me in that slot. The break was about 45 mintues
long, during which time I found my friend Adam, who's wife had given birth
to their second child the night before. I'm not sure how she let him get
away, but he felt lucky, and was not disappointed!
The second set was a mind melter for me. The jam into Cumberland was a
scorcher. Jimmy can play so fast, and I was so pleasantly surprised to see
him adapt to what is essentially a Bluegrass tune so well. All night long,
the guitar work and interplay we a constant source of amazement for me,
and it was done no better than during Cumberland. As the band found that
intro groove out of the opening jam, the crowd, recognizing it, was lifted
5 feet off the floor. I've not seen a group of 1000 people dance so hard!
Phil was having a blast, and it was infectious. Cumberland moved into a
funky Hard to Handle, which finally showcased Warren's amazing voise. Man,
that guy can sing. I had forgotten what a powerful voice he has. We got yet
another St. Stephen tease into a rocking Brown Eyed Woman. Again, I prefer
Phil's arangement, though I must say that Bobby did the vocals better than
Rob did. No offesne to Rob, the guy's got a stellar voice, a treat
nonetheless. BEW, jammed into something very unusual that I didn't
recognize until I saw the band's setlist post show. The first Allice D.
Millionaire since when????!!!! I need to tape to remember this, as at this time, my mind
had been fully removed and was in orbit somewhere around Jupiter.
Candyman, another first for the Quitnet, was marvelous. Phil had a strong
command of the lyrics, and even though I think he does oversing a bit, the
song came of very well - the Candyman surely was in town. Viola Lee was
insane. This song again showcased the interplay of the guitarists. There
was not a lot of straight up guitar solos by each player, rather more of
a ensemble solo that would range from intense to delicate and everwhere in
between. It was a nice change from the guitar hero type of show that
Ratdog puts on. Both Jimmy and Warren are outstanding players who can fill
the guitar god role with ease, but each constantly fed off the other,
neither hogging the spotlight. Hell, neither really even took the
spotlight! Viola Lee was the perfect example to me of how this band gets
down and gets off. As they built a climax to the final verse, that climax
that is usually loud and cacophonous, they dropped the last, and longest
St. Stephen tease, this one the entire intro, before hitting the last
verse of Viola. Viola moved into a rousing, set closing, Golden Road, which
once again put Warren's powerful voice front and center. He just looks like
he loves singing that song! After Phil thanked the crowd for helping to
make the music, they sent us home with a beautiful Brokedown Palance. Even
though the crowd really wanted St. Stephen to make a triumphant return,
the mellow Brokedown was the perfect cap on an incredible evening, nay,
week, of music. The crown filtered out into the cool spring evening. There
were smiles all around.
Things I really enjoyed about Phil:
Seeing him give the band pre set pep talks.
Seeing the band gather on stage after each set and hug, shake hands, and
high five each other. They Love what they are doing it it shows!
Seeing all the visitors in Boise, totally getting off on our little scene!
I met some folks who made the trip up from the Bay Area and Seattle just
for the show, and they said they would come again!
One final note: during setbreak a roadie set up a mic near Jimmy's rig. I was thinking that since Bobby was off last night and he was in the general area (he played in Boise Friday night and had played Seattle Sunday) that it might be for him. However, some folks that I met from the Bay Area mentioned the running "Let Jimmy Sing" joke. As it turned out, that's what it was, as Jimmy came on stage, he bent the mic stand down with a huge "aw shucks" type grin. A roadie soon removed it alltogether.
Matt...thanks for the review! tingling vicariously....
Let Jimmy Sing....D...I think they're setting you up, m'friend....
Great review Matt! Where's the MT folder at!!!
Viva Idaho!! (I used to live there...)
Alice D. Millionaire is on the Golden Road Box Set, it's an extra on the The Grateful Dead CD, along with a couple of versions of Viola. It is supposed to be about Owsley, but the title came from the headline of a newspaper article in 1966 that called him the "LSD Millionaire." I'm not sure that was appropriate!
The CD notes say it's a "peppy little tune with sort of Booker T meets the Ventures instrumental sound with a solid Pigpen vocal." That sounds about right.
I still live in Idaho, home of the famous spud. Bobby was here Friday, and was here twice last year. Great seeing these guys come around. Anybody tape this show?
>>>Candyman! Candyman! Candyman!
Am I supposed to assume that piece of crap is GOOD in the 2nd set????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Really, it was a waste of time in the GD's first set.
It's looking more & more like the end of the line for me.....
Well the rest of the show looks great, so I wouldn't get too down about one Candyman. If the songs don't work, then they won't play them again. The boys know when it's not working better than all of us. Just look what Phil has done with Just A Little Light, total throw-away song turned into a monster.
Bucky...ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! Phil and Friends is getting better by the show and are turning into an absolute powerhouse. Hey, if Phil can make Liberty work, he can make any song work :-) Anyone who argues that the good old days with the Little Feat fellows was somehow better then whats going on now with Phil and Friends has obviously not listened to a show from the past year. I honestly can not think of a bad show that the line-up has performed. Compare that with earlier incarnations of Phil and Friends and the Dead from 92-95 and I think it becomes clear just how special what is going on RIGHT NOW, as in THIS PAST WEEK. Four great shows already, many more to come in 2002. See you at Merriweather!!!
>>>Bucky...ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
No, I wish I was.
>>> Hey, if Phil can make Liberty work, he can make any
Yeah, Liberty was REAL scorcher.
If you burn your garbage.....
>>>I honestly can not think of a bad show that the line-up has
You should have been at Oakdale 11-20.
People who went to Albany said it was worse.
Ask Brick or Muabid what they thought of 12-1-01 before Shakedown.
The first set was listless.
That was the weakest 2 set show I've seen besides Oakdale. Miss a verse of China Cat, messed up Slipknot & Franklin's, plus St Stephen.
From what I can see, the band is breaking out inferior material & wasn't playing as consistently great last Fall as Spring or Summer '01.
They seemed posessed by the music during the Summer, & lazy alot in the Fall.
THAT (summer) was the peak.
Oh well, we were playing with house money.
I'm thinking it's time to cash in my chips while I'm still ahead.....
Am I supposed to assume that piece of crap is GOOD in the 2nd set????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Really, it was a waste of time in the GD's first set.
It's looking more & more like the end of the line for me.....
opinions, opinions, opinions - that's the waste of time - see ya later BUCKY - please make it the end of the line - guess your idea and stupid reviews of phil and his ULTRA band isn't the reality you'd prefer - BYE BYE..
..and to even mention or associate the word "CRAP" regarding these precious songs shows me and the rest of us you don't have a CLUE.. THAT'S REALITY!
love the positive and informative reviews, not the headline opinionated reviews from "stars of the philzone review pages".
keep playin' em phil - you're the greatest!
If you can honestly say that "Candyman" or "Ship of Fools" in the SECOND SET would be a highlight...that "Liberty" is anything but FILLER, that "'Til the Morning Comes", or "Good Lovin' is KILLER material, then all I can do is shake my head in consternation. Where's "Dark Star"? What became of playing a FULL and COMPLETE "That's It For The Other One"? Where's the DUAL DOUBLE TIME guitars in "Dear Mr. Fantasy"?
This incarnation of P&F was ULTRA POWERFUL last Spring and Summer...compare lists, listen to the shows.
I agree with Bucky, the 3 shows I saw last Fall...at Oakdale, and 2 at The Beacon, just were not their "A" game. Not after what I saw at Roseland 4/3/01, or Hartford 7/21/01...or Red Rocks last July 8th. Check THAT list...now..THAT'S a show!!
Or how about The Beacon run in April of 2000? Look at 4/22 and 4/23 specifically. LISTEN to those shows.
Do you REALLY think they are as good or better NOW?????
To compare ANYTHING that Phil has done to The Dead of '92-'95 is LUDICROUS! THEY were nothing more than a caricature of themselves at that point...and PHIL would be...AND HAS BEEN...the FIRST to admit that.
P&F...from, say, November '99...to July '01 (save for SOME of the "Little Feat" shows) has been UNBELIEVABLE! Haynes and Trucks...Pevar and Herring...Haynes and Herring...spectacular!
But, it now seems that what has brought them to the levels they have reached is not sparking them any longer.
So...they break out new (for them), and decidedly inferior material (comparing the last 2.5 years, to the present) which...simply put...does not possess the BALLS of what this band is REALLY capable of.
And THAT...is simply unacceptable.
If you can honestly say that "Candyman", or Ship of Fools" in the SECOND SET, or "'Til the Morning Comes", or "Good Lovin'" are KILLER tunes, then all I can do is shake my head in consternation.
Where's "Dark Star"? What's happened to playing a FULL and COMPLETE "That's It For The Other One"?
I agree with Bucky...from the 3 shows I saw last Fall...Oakdale and 2 at The Beacon, the just aren't playing with the same consistency of greatness for an ENTIRE SHOW...as WAS the case in shows I saw at Roseland 4/30/01...or Hartford 7/21/01. Check THOSE lists...listen to THOSE shows, or Red Rocks 7/7/01..now..THAT'S a show!!
Or, how about The Beacon run of April, 2000. 4/22 and 4/23 specifically...check THOSE lists...listen to THOSE shows...or 5/27/00 Mountain Aire.
Do you REALLY think they are as good or better NOW?
To compare ANYTHING Phil has done, to The Dead from '92-'95 is ludicrous. At that juncture they were nothing more than a caricature of their former selves and PHIL would be...and HAS BEEN...the FIRST to admit that.
P&F from say, November '99 to July '01 (save for SOME of the "Little Feat" shows" has been spectacular! Haynes and Trucks...Pevar and Herring...Haynes and Herring...tremendous!
However, it seems that what has brought them to this point does not spark them any longer.
So...they break out new (to them) and decidely inferior material that...simply put...does not possess the BALLS and FEROCIOUSNESS with which this band has proven they are capable of playing through an ENTIRE show.
And that...simply...is unacceptable.
Hey..how the HELL did THAT happen?
I though I cancelled the first post..and revised it down to the second.
All thoughts expressed are my own...but they didn't need to be paraphrased by myself!
I can see what you are saying some of the time, BUT, how can you trash this band when there is sooo much SHITTY music out in the world today! When you see a PLQ show, you walk in with the possibility that something magical might happen. That's not to say that it will, just the possibility that it might be...The 12/1 show at the Beacon wasn't hot until the Shakedown, you are right, but listen to the 11/17 show at Lehigh and listen to that 2nd set and tell me that isn't HOT!!! Phil even said so at the end of the set. This band is FUN to see. And they ARE getting better every day. Enjoy it now, because probably in 5 years or so, they might not be around...WARREN is the HARDEST WORKING man in Rock 'n Roll, and one of the best...PLUS PLQ is SOOOOO much better than that piece of crap band Creed. If you can't enjoy the music then DON'T LISTEN. As with the Dead, some nights aren't as good as others, but we keep going back for more, because it's the magic that we're seeking. Just enjoy and if you can't find something else to listen to
I just hope that I'm still rockin' as hard as Phil after I pass that 60 mark.
You all are ruining it for me! If Phil's band, or his choice of songs, or whatever doesn't work for someone, so be it. If someone wants to post a review that is less than glowing, so be it. I've come to learn that each person has a different experience at shows, and there's a lot more than the music that determines whether or not someone is going to have a good show or a bad one. There's the crowd, your substance intake, the quality of the sound, your view of the stage, your proximity to the f-ing garbage cans near the stairs at the Big Easy, your drive to the venue - these factors have contributed, to me anyway, to one's enjoyment of a show. The review I posted was my own take, but just because it tends toward the glowing side of things doesn't make it any more right or wrong than Bucky's take on the show! Hell, I feel about Ratdog the way he does regarding Phil's band. That said, this is the first time I've seen this incarnation of his band. And for me personally, my best show is always my last show. Enjoy the music while it is here. It won't be forever...
Call me crazy, clueless, stupid, ignorant, whatever...but I like Candyman.
LIKING a given song is obviously one's own personal preference.
But common sense and some rudimentary Grateful Dead knowledge tells you that IF this song is played at all...it should NOT be played in the middle of the SECOND SET.
Talk about a momentum killer!
I agree Keyshawn...middle/near end of the 1st set would be best for Candyman...
I agree Matt...
Enjoy it while it lasts, because it won't be around forever...I dislike Ratdog too, because I feel that it shows Bobby for what he is, a good guitarist, with good songs, but with Garcia and co. he was the perfect fit and awesome for what he did. He was one of the best rhythm guitarists and complemented Garcia. But when I see Bobby, it is sooooo glaring that he needs Jerry up there and it makes me so sad and angry that the songs sound so weak. I do have to admit that the recent Ratdog setlists have been ok, but I haven't heard them, so that's that (PLUS HE HAS A DJ WITH HIM?????). Everyone needs to realize that there is soooooooo much bad music in the world today (listen to the radio) and when good music comes along, we should enjoy it and feel it. GREAT music makes us happy. PLQ is great music. Sometimes it takes you over the rainbow, other times, you might not like every moment, but they try to put on a great show every night and that's what's important. There was nothing, EVER, like a Grateful Dead concert, BUT PLQ sure tries to come close and that's what I apprechiate.
>But common sense and some rudimentary Grateful Dead knowledge tells you that IF this song is played at all
uh....this isn't the grateful dead
I always preferred it, IF they HAD to play it, in the first "slow Jerry" slot in the first set.
Give you time to take a breath...reload.
No...it's NOT, Cinderoo.
Precisely WHY this TRIPE should NOT be placed in the middle of the second set.
This band is better than that.
>Precisely WHY this TRIPE should NOT be placed in the middle of the second set.
This band is better than that.
hmmm....i really like that plq doesn't conform to our normal notions of what should be played at a certain point in a set. man, i really got tired of that 1st set, 2nd set formula the dead got into. didn't you? so, if candyman can show up in the middle of the second set, how cool is it to get a terrapin or an 11 opener?
that being said, we know where you and bucky stand on songs as opposed to jams. you don't like 'em, call 'em tripe, etc. i don't happen to think songs like candyman, ship of fools are bad things. to me, they're as classic as the other one....just in an entirely different direction. now, i could really do without pride of cucamunga.
You have to walk into a PLQ show and think to yourself..."This is not the GD nor am I seeing the GD". The band is just working out the kinks and it was the first time they played Candyman. If you saw any Dead shows, by the end they were becoming predictable and admit it, sometimes you wanted them to mix it up a bit. Yes, sometimes when they are cooking, they slow it down and the energy might escape, but the music is still awesome. Have fun with the music and don't worry where the song is supposed to be played. This band COOKS! Being a deadhead has sometimes been aquated to being a New Yorker. Ask a new yorker what he/she feels about the City and mostly you'll hear the negative things, but when someone from the outside critizes it..they'll rip that person's head off...If you don't like the songs anymore, or don't like the shows, DON'T GO OR LISTEN. There is a lot of music out there. Listen to that, or enjoy PLQ and be thankful that there is a place for us to enjoy this kind of music, which is probably some of the best music being created today. KEYSHAWN and BUCKY, are you going to buy the new album? If ther answer is yes, then all your previous statements are mute.
Hey KJ, its not your band. Phil is a masterful musician who wouldn't be up there doing "Candyman" in the middle of the second set to make a fool of himself. Remember, P&F, unlike the Dead, work off a setlist each night. This means they are trying to accomplish SOMETHING by placing a song in a particular spot.
Bucky, you were not at the show. The setlist, esp. for P&F doesn't come close to telling the story of the show. Who knows what take on Candyman they had, was it part of a jam? It sounds as though everyone who was at the show had no problem with it and were generally thrilled by the show as a whole.
Thank you rasta!!! I spoke to Bruce Hornsby last year at length about his time with the Dead. The biggest surprise to him was how unwilling the band was to shake up their setlists. How many China>Riders and Scarlet>Fires does one need to hear? Everything was getting very stagnant towards the end and THAT is why seeing "Candyman" in the middle of the second set is so refreshing. THEY ARE TRYING SOMETHING NEW!!!
Now I remember why I quit logging on to this page. There's a smug know it all punk like Bucky on every message board I've ever visited.
I find Keyshawn's comment that PLQ not playing up to their potential "simply unacceptable" appaling as well. Begs the question...."who are YOU?" Have you ever played in a touring band...thirty shows in forty nights? Do professional athletes play at their absolute peak every single night? The fact that you two can only list three or four bad shows over the past 18 months is a pretty weak argument that the band is on the decline.
They are however changing. And there's always gonna be some crumudgeon harping about the good old days. They are maturing. Becoming more polished and restrianed--and wiht a big tour looming, less likely to blow their wad every night. Fine with me. I trust Phil.
The reason I find these posts so offensive is not just because I like Phil so much, but because after reading his interviews I know how much thought , artistry and love he pours into planning a set list. "Each set s tells a story, musically or lyrically, and each show is like a chapter, with the completed tour being the completed novel." (Or in the case of 4 Winds Tour, a novella.)
Resting on his laurels with "filler " tunes? Are you kidding me? Does it make sense that they would learn NEW songs...what in order to take a little nap during the second set? To spite you? Recall, Till the Morning Comes won the philzone poll on most anticipated bust-out. (Personally, I find it touching that he did just that on the first show of the tour.) The new tunes are giving him a bigger pallette to tell a wider range of stories. Which to me seems the opposite of declining. Obvioulsy, with more songs there will naturally be more that you dislike.
Keep in mind this is a guy who composed orignal pieces last summer based on the planety cycle and the tarrot deck and performed them on the appropriate date and geography! C'mon, that's sick. And they were good!
Phil Lesh is an artist of the very highest integrity. Give him the respect he deserves or stay the fuck off his page.
People must realize by now that you can't judge a PLQ show by the setlist. Candyman in the second set...UBC opener...first set St Stephen...whatever... There are no set rules with this band. Every song has the potential for sick jamming, exploratory jazz, transcendant segues. If you weren't there and don't have the tapes, how do you know that they didn't just play the sickest Candyman ever?
Tell me that 2 minutes into a second-set momentum-killer like Stella Blue you're not envisioning Jerry and being graced with a soft bittersweet smile on your face....despite having been slowed down from a near-frantic state.
As Phil says, these songs are islands in a sea of chaos. I certainly wouldn't mind getting stuck on Candyman Island for a bit.
Tuscon Tom....I hear the angels singing...AMEN!
Look, I can't judge Good Lovin or Till the Morning Comes or SOTM until I hear performed live. Philco totally reversed my opinion on JALL and so I'm ready to give every song a chance. And I love sentiment behind some of the songs, like Pride, even if they don't always pan out.
Seems there was always something for everyone here...at Philco...old, new, twisted, covers...and right, some nights are better than others. I think we all agree this is mo better than later era Dead...more CONSISTENT.
So...you don't like the song selection...I get it...I like those full OtherOnes and Darkstars too....but someone else likes Stella and KSM and even 1000 Stars. There's a new album coming out...what were you expecting???? I'll never forget the Mardi Gras run in 92...4 new songs in 3 days....and they played ALL of them in the second set at the Mardi Gras show. Whoa....talk about not getting yr Dew...I was a mite shook. But OC they are going to play them, and OC the music is going to be "accessible"...read the Phil quotes in the Almanac review yet?
Now some people would rather hear all new tunes...and some only one long jam. Thank god it's not static....the music...the song selection...bc then it would be DEAD. Voice yr opinion...all is relevant...but be realistic about what is happening NOW...with the album...and, well, I can't imagine having the balls to talk about a song as a downer if you're basing that opinion on the GD version of the song....let Phil try it, and develop it...oh ye of little faith... ;)
Well, we all know Bucky and Keshawn only like the following songs:
According to them, if anything other than those songs make it into the setlist, it is subpar...
New songs? Hell no!
Slow songs? Hell no!
New song placement? Hell no!
It MUST go Dark Star > St Steve > The 11!!!
It MUST go Cryp > Other One > Cryp
So, Tom, don't think that these two are the voice of the Zone, 'cause they're far from it...They're just crusty old farts who are far too set in their ways...
I thought the Liberty in Burlington was fantastic. I got giddy when I heard Till the Morning Comes and SOTM and Candyman were broken out! I think the new tunes are pretty fun! I think Pride of Cucomonga is good times. I'm far too busy being thrilled to hear new life breathed into so many old friends to complain about (of all things) song selection and new material...
Buckster and Keysh...I love you and all, and I'm looking forward to hanging at the Vibes, but you're far too crusty...
Sure is a nice day today.
>> Sure is a nice day today.
It's snowing in Syracuse...No snow all winter, but it snows in April...I just don't get it...
BUT, at least it's sunny!!
I'm actually at work right now...so it's going to be tough to go deeply into this..BUT..
I am on the phone RIGHT NOW with Bucky.
One thing we MUST address right now:
"Candyman" and "Ship of Fools" just as classic as "The Other One"...
We are both in PAIN..severe stomach cramps from LAUGHING!!!
Hey Reverend...how'd "Terrapin" make the cut and NOT "Viola Lee"?
The OTHER crusty ol' fart says check yer mail on Saturday.
such a silly argument...on the Review boards no less...but one thing...
define "classic", Keyshawn, or we can go nowhere from here.
Candyman, coming from 1970...seems classic on one level to me...or are we back to the old "it's not really the essence w/o deep jam &/or space?"
>I'm actually at work right now...so it's going to be tough to go deeply into this..BUT..
I am on the phone RIGHT NOW with Bucky.
One thing we MUST address right now:
"Candyman" and "Ship of Fools" just as classic as "The Other One"...
We are both in PAIN..severe stomach cramps from LAUGHING!!!
You guys are dicks
Its your own trip KJ. Whatever. Personally, I would like it if P&F made it a goal to eventually incorporate the Dead's entire catalog into their shows. We do agree on one thing though, I never was a fan of Ship of Fools. Still, though, I would like to hear Phil's interpretation of it at least once.
This deserves repeating: YOU ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY CAN NOT JUDGE A PHIL SHOW BY ITS SETLIST!!!
You should reserve opinions like those expressed by KJ and Bucky until you have a clean copy of the particular show on CD.
To Michael Carroll:
"Good comeback, Potsie"...
And by the way, Spongebucky, and Krusty Keyshawn wiil take on all comers at the Krusty Krab.
Squigword will be the special guest referee.
The last album either Bucky OR I bought, was an 8 Track.
Now...all you whippasnappas...ask me what an 8 Track is.
This is what happens when Phish fans are allowed on the board. This negativity has me pissed :-)
Well no wonder KJ and Bucky are the way they. You way wish it was guys, but it ain't 1972 anymore and The Dead are not playing Veneta this August. Its time to move on or at least not hold a grudge against Phil for doing so.
The Grateful Dead's mantra was EXPLORATION.
How exploratory is "Candyman" as opposed to "That's It For The Other One" or "Dark Star"?
The following is Bucky's comment transcribed verbatim:
"Dark Star" or The Other One" framed NINETY PERCENT of the EPIC JAMS in Grateful Dead history.
Pull out any show from '68 to '74 and take a look.
Pal...the only fish I'm a fan of is served at the Krusty Krab.
I'm 41 years old.
I wouldn't know Phish from moe...but I CAN tell ya Moe from Shemp.
>To Michael Carroll:
"Good comeback, Potsie"...
I still have my 8-track along with Rick James' SUPERFREAK so shut up please..I think that you were sitting in front of me at the Beacon show this past December... You were so annoying (if it was you)... If you read my comments, you would know that I was NOT coming after you in any negative way. You and your friend Bucky were throwing the negative comments around. and if that statement is true about the last album you bought was an 8-track, then my friend...WELCOME TO THE 21st century...I'm shocked that you know how to use a computer. FIRST OFF, how did we all come to this. we all know that it easy to write these comments anonomously. Try saying them when we meet at a show. I'd love to smoke a J or have a beer with your guys and hear your comments spoken to my face. I'd bet they'd be slightly different. SECONDLY, PHISH fans do suck because most of them are young punks who drive their mom and dad's pathfinder to shows and get fucked up. Musically, Phish is a strong band but their fans make going to the shows not fun..WHY do you think they broke up for a little. TO weed out the scene...I saw Phish on a lawn at U Mass in '90. That was fun...And last, in the immortal words of Rodney King..."Can't we all just get along?"
GOD BLESS SHIRLEY HEMPHILL
Ok...exploration....just as long as we know what the definiton is. Even in yr frame of ref I would beg to differ though. 1968, 1969, sure...right on. But then almost a year of shows with huge acoustic first sets featuring songs like Deep Elem, Cumberland, Cold Rain and YES, Candyman....well...a large portion of the program devoted to somethng other than cryp>oone, dark star, even though the electric sets had things like Mama Tried in them too...and you begin to see trends of things like first and second set songs...Bertha starting so many shows, Other One always in the second set. And if a song has ALWAYS been in the second, jammy set, then we think of it as more exploratory....
But isn't part of Phil's thing CHANGING all that? Putting JALL in the second set, and, wow...it's pretty damn good. Breaking up Terrapin...starting a show with NFA...all expectations are gone, not just limitations of era, but also of SET. It may not happen at once, Candyman may not be great on its first outing in the second set. But don't you want to give it time? New Speedway has gotten SO much better in my estimation....just let it settle.
And in terms of breakouts...well...re:the album...I figured there would be some dancers thrown in...Til The AM Comes, Loose Lucy, Road Runner....this stuff is meant to draw a crowd, and imo, make them dance....but lord, let's give a few seconds to gel.....
Oh was the Dead's only trip EXPLORATION???
Here is a setlist from one of their honey years that I pulled up at random:
Field House (Seneca College), Toronto, XCON (11/2/77)
They Love Each Other
Me and My Uncle
Looks Like Rain
Ramble on Rose
Might As Well
Samson and Delilah
Ship of Fools
Fire on the Mountain
Around and Around
OK...Promised Land, Me and My Uncle, Big River, Candyman, Looks Like Rain (SHE'S GOOOOOOOOONNNNNEEEE), Ramble on Rose, Good Lovin', SUNRISE???, yet another Truckin'. WHERE IS THE "EXPLORATION." These are all good songs (except for Sunrise) but they are rather cut and dried as was about 60% of the Dead's concerts. There is nothing wrong with playing rocking versions of great songs. Add in some tripped out jamming versions of Scarlet>Fire, St. Stephen, and Terrapin and you know why '77 was a great year. Phil is doing the same things with his bands. It doesn't need to be all spacey jams. Spacey Jams was NEVER what the Dead were about. They were a Blues/Bluegrass based band and I think certain Heads tend to forget that.
well...the era cited was 68-74 so sadly the setlist does not bolster the argument....
but no busting on Sunrise. Them's fighting words. heh heh heh
Here's what I'd like to see:
II. Ship of Fools
Wouldn't this be, like, totally, um, Super Hot?!
If Phil cared about the Phans at all, he would, like, STOP writing new stuff with Hunter, and break out the old show and teleprompters!! It all started to fall apart when everyone began to remember the words to the songs. . .
Love you guys!
welll.....throw out the Bobby tunes...add a song from 1968 I thought I'd never see...throw in the occasional Stephen and Golden Road, and please don't forget to spice it up with something NEW....well...that'd be heaven....
oh, shit...Philco's already doing it. So you don't like every show. OK....go see another band if it becomes chronic. Personally, I think lots of folks are having a blast.
you are an idiot...
it's 2002, not 1994
you actually want a Corinna???
you should be taken out bahind the barn and shot for a comment like that...
YOU KNOW NOTHING...NOTHING
I really hope that you were kidding. If not, someone find out where Dano lives. He needs to be put out of his misery.
DANO, you make Bucky and Keyshawn sould like they went to Harvard...When in truth, they went to HARTFORD
Unless you sat in THE last row in the upper balcony at The Beacon...more in front of Warren than mid stage...that wasn't myself OR Bucky.
I can also tell you this...EVERY "Zoner" who Bucky and I have met over the last year or so knows we have no trouble speaking our mind...in person as well as cyberspace.
Over a fattie, of course!!
...and Hartford was GREAT!
What's the problem? I could listen to that repetative nenenenenenenenenenenenenenenene of Corrina for hours. Who wants a crummy old Dark Star when you can have-- nenenenenenenenenenenenenenenenenenenene Corrina!!
Chill, Just Kiddin' I'd rather go see Manson anyway.
MAN you people are easy.
Well Rasta...we agree on Dano.
Well, I was at the show, and I enjoyed Candyman quite a lot. I personally love the fact that Phil is breaking the rules that the Dead so strictly adheared to. And yes, Phil has made it clear that he is trying to tell a story or paint a picture with his setlists. If nothing else, it serves as a means to make sure there aren't so many repeats on a tour! If Candyman's not your thing, go take a leak or get a beer or leave. I actually found it kind of a nice break from dancing, but that was my overused legs talking to me. I think by the time Candyman rolled around, I had been standing for about 4 hours straight. As far as jamming goes, I think it is also pretty clear that this band does not need a Dark Star or a That's It for the Other One to stretch out. For reference, please check the jams immediately prior to and following Candyman. Hell, even Jerry said that Dark Star as a vehicle for jamming was tiresome to him. And Phil has always said that he thought every Dead song could have been stretched a bit. As far as my thoughts on Candyman being a classic, well, it's a classic Hunter/Garcia song whose lyrics and story I love. The imagery of those vintage 69-70 era Hunter lyrics can send me to places that even the depest of space or the funkiest of jams cannot, which is why I find Grateful Dead Music so much more satisfying that say Phish or the Cheese. So I hope Phil continues to break the mold as much as possible, surprise us, and continue to do his thing.
that was me sitting behind you at the Beacon in the last row. I was with the person you told to SHUT UP, because he was talking to me, just a little too loud for you. Your super-intelligent comment was "Have you ever been to the movies? Well, no one likes to have people talking at movies." It was a dumb comment, but I have to say, we make fun of my friend (still) about your comment. In fact, he offered you a beer and a DOOBIE, but you turned him down. You and you BIG ASS left soon after. I thought it was nice of my friend to offer that to you. You were a dick by turning him down and to be quite honest, the show got MUCH better when you left.
I think Phil should cover Heavy Things by the Fish.
I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.
Please be nice to me. I know a lot.
And I really do love you guys.
See you at Vibes.
Sorry Rasta...not me...but it WAS my counterpart apparently.
>> I think Phil should cover Heavy Things by the Fish.
I couldn't agree more! Just imagine a Heavy Things > Corina > Sunrise...
Now THAT's where it's at!
I was sitting 3 seats to his right..and if you had offered it to ME..I can GUARANTEE I would NOT have turned you down.
I remained in that row the entire show...through Dicky.
SO it was Bucky...
that doesn't surprise me...
he was a f-ing dickhead (sounds like he still is).
I will still smoke a doob with you guys though.
sounds like it would be an interesting J.
See you at the Vibes.
one of the people that I was with is @ Denver/Vail. is going to Jazzfest and also the Vibes...DEADICATED FAN, don't ya think?
OH, and Hartford was a fun school..LOTS AND LOTS OF PARTYING GOING ON THERE!!!
if he offered you the doob and beer would you accept it?
and yes, BUCKY HAS A HUGE ASS.
C'mon...there's no need to denigrate to a personal level.
Let's keep this on the MUSIC...that seems to be a vociferous enough topic.
I not only would have accepted...ya might notta gotten it back!
Spark 'em up!
Bucky DID have a valid point.
If the MUSIC is so important, why is there talking going on THROUGH the music?
Aren't we ALL there to HEAR the music...not peoples' conversations?
if we do meet at a show, I'll roll you up a personal doob of your own to smoke.
Bucky does have a big ass, and he kind of ruined the show for my friend. He didn't really speak to anyone after that. so, in my opinion, BUCKY was a dickpeople are just trying to enjoy a show and it wasn't cool for him to do that. The place was packed that night and Bucky was sweating up a storm. I'll still smoke him out if I meet him, but he can't be making the comments here if he's going to be commenting like that at shows. you can tell him that too!!!
and if he doesn't like it, tell him to go write his congressman
My friend might have been talking a little too loud, but Bucky's comments were unnecessary. He could have asked him to tone it down a little, and not make such a rude comment, and when my friend tried to remedy the situation with beer and a little smoke he was rude...That's where I have the problem. You stick up for your friend and I'll stick up for mine.
Ya have to remember Rasta...not everyone enjoys certain libations.
At least not any longer...that's why the offer was declined.
>The Grateful Dead's mantra was EXPLORATION
only part of the story, i'm afraid. whether you like hunter/garcia tunes or not, songs were as integral a part of the dead as pure exploration. workingman's dead is the prime example of the dead's desire to do both. in the midst of some of their craziest exploratory shows, they come out with an album of folky songs. gotta love that ying and yang.
For an album Cinderoo, yes, that's fine. But when I'm paying to see a show...give me the Main Course...the 32 oz. King Cut Prime Rib...not the Fruit Cocktail, Salad, and a half pound T-Bone.
Cuz, ya know, ya don't eat yer meat...ya can't have any pudding.
One comment. then I will leave it to rest, I was the Philadelphia Spectrum on 10/20/89 and Jerry played "candyman" ... when you hear the verse "won't you tell everybody you meet, that the candyman's in town" the whole crowd exploded in cheer!!! now let me see 20,000+ at the spec that night and we were ALL wrong????? check the tapes if you don't believe me! Candyman is awesome
>For an album Cinderoo, yes, that's fine. But when I'm paying to see a show...give me the Main Course...the 32 oz. King Cut Prime Rib...not the Fruit Cocktail, Salad, and a half pound T-Bone.
Cuz, ya know, ya don't eat yer meat...ya can't have any pudding.
Now there's the difference....I want the whole damn buffet.
btw Jerry is rolling in his grave while this foolish banter is being spewed......
Doobie Brothers song--- whoa, listen to the music!
Why get filled up on canapes' when you can have Prime Rib and Lobster?
Laughable is more like it.
The "crowd" cheered.
The crowd cheers at..."Test me, test me, test me, test me, test me, test me...why don't you arrest me"...
The crowd cheers at ..."tell me this town ain't got no heart"...
The crowd cheers at..."livin' on reds, Vitamin C, and cocaine"...
The crowd cheers at..."I wish I was a headlight on a northbound train"...
The crowd cheers at..."waits backstage while I sing to YOU"...
The crowd cheers at..."one man gathers what another man spills"...
The crowd cheers at..."I guess it doesn't matter anyway"...
"Candyman" next to THOSE?
>Why get filled up on canapes' when you can have Prime Rib and Lobster?
personal preference? call me crazy (i assume that both you and bucky already have!), but i like variety.
Oooohhh Cinderoo..ya GOTTA go to the Buffet with US!
There's plenty in the way of variety in the MEAT.
Succulent Peking Duck MEAT.
Thick, juicy Prime Rib MEAT.
Juicier Pig Roast MEAT.
There's a place for the canapes' but...as has been our ORIGINAL point all along....NOT during the MAIN COURSE.
meatheads, oh dear.....
aha....you see...i'm a vegetarian
here's the deal key. i absolutely love the exploratory shows...i definitely want to be taken to very far off places. shows that go off in that direction are clearly the pick of the litter. we all hope to be at them when they occur. but, i definitely enjoy the shows were songs get played too, just so long as i know that the chance for exploration is there..within the song and in an entire show. the songs take me places too. i just don't think they're crap. hunter's lyrics are, to me, incredible and the music that jerry wrote for them match and support and make them even more powerful. that's meaty stuff too. for you? no. that's cool.
YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO GOT TO THE BUFFET WITH BUCKY AND KEYSHAWN...
BUCKY WILL EAT EVERYTHING BEFORE YOU GET A LEAF OF LETTUCE ON YOUR PLATE...
He's THAT BIG ( )
i had to sit behind him at a show
THAT IS UNCALLED FOR.
You just blew ANY credibility that you had.
Have I gotten personal?
Have I resorted to name calling?
That's a shame.
It was a nice, HOT debate, with differing viewpoints. (Mine and Bucky's vs. pretty much everyone else apparently.)
But...now I KNOW that Bucky was ABSOLUTELY justified in his actions.
Remember...I was sitting RIGHT THERE.
I heard your friend through most of ther first set, too.
The premise is to LISTEN to the music...you DON'T do that by talking...talking LOUD ENOUGH CONTINUALLY to be heard OVER the music coming through a state of the art sound system.
YOU are WAY off base here.
CALM DOWN Keyshawn
I was just poking fun.
didn't mean to rustle any feathers.
didn't really mean to get personal.
for that, I apologize to Bucky.
I am sorry
I thought that it was a funny comment(IT WAS).
didn't mean to piss you off.
won't go there anymore.
BUT I DIDN'T LOSE ANY CREDIBILITY...I still know what I am talking about and you don't (ha ha) AND Bucky was definietly NOT justified in his actions, no matter what I just wrote. There was a dude next to me doing BONG HITS in my face the entire night and DIDN'T EVEN OFFER ME ONE HIT...NOW THAT WAS RUDE (did you see him) I mean come on, you can bring ANYTHING into the Beacon, and that's a little scary.
For once I agree with KJ. I used to be quite overweight and was extremely self-conscious. One of the things that helped me break out of my shell was going to some of the early Phil and Friends shows. There, everyone seemed to accept you for who you were and not for the extra pounds you were packing. Met a lot of nice people and through a combination of a healthy diet and lots of dancing with reckless abandon, I lost 80 pounds and now am a trim 6 foot, 150 lbs.
Moral of the story...support your hefty brethren, especially if they are sensitive or not happy with themselves. You would be surprised how the kindness of strangers can really brighten your life and set you on the right path.
Rock On Bucky :-)
Rasta was supposed to be in Denver but he cancelled on me and now is wasting his day arguing with you guys. I am in Denver now and I have his ticket which i'd love to trade for some nugs. Rasta, there's still time for tomorrow and Saturday - get on the friggin plane you dick! By the way - that bud you left me smelled so strong I was sure that the pilot on the plane could smell it!!! Iverson is still MVP...e
Well, unfortunately, I don't get paid to sit at computer & play on the Philzone all day.
I must be quick as I have a young autistic escape artist whom it is my job to watch.
But, Keyshawn called me & told me enough about this discussion.
Maybe tonight, I'll log on after the kids are in bed & respond.
BUT, Rasta, first let me say that I've taken worse than you could ever give me up here & I will not lower myself to ignorant name calling.....
Ever heard of Sal/Phil McWade?
He slammed me many times, in a much ruder way than you have (If you were my friend, I'd even laugh at your fat jokes). And guess what?
I know who Sal/Phil is & I won't even reveal that here as long as he stays away.
I will say it is somebody who tries hard to get everyone to like them when they post under their real name & they wouldn't want the imformation released....
So, I can take your comments, which only ruins ANY credibility your opinions might have.
Now, onto 12-1:
1. If I remember correctly, I said NOTHING for about ONE HOUR while your friend babbled away.
Meanwhile, we could barely hear the sound if he wasn't talking, so I asked him to stop, & he said something back.
Then I said the comment about being quiet at an $8 movie.
Isn't that true? You don't behave like that at the movies do you? If you did, somebody would get the usher & you would be removed.
Then why should it be OK to do so at a $40 concert?
BTW, I notice EVERY time I say that, the person may respond rudely, but, they miraculously shut up.
One guy even apologized to me between sets, saying "You were right"........
2. Now, how do you expect anybody to take your critique of a show or song seriously if all you did was talk to each other?
Or, maybe it was only talking during the 'boring' between song jams?
It always seems to get louder then....
3. If I remember correctly (I not only have the ass of an elephant, I have the memory of one too), your friend offered me a beer (& joint?) during the middle of a song, which I was trying to listen to. Silly me, not wanting to have my concentration broken....
However, I perfectly understood the 'peace' gesture. I would have gladly told you guys during the break that I appreciated it, but I have been drug free (and haven't had a beer) for over 8 years......
When the set ended though, when I turned around, you guys were gone & Brick had magically appeared with Truant in your very seats & helped us get down on the floor, where we also enjoyed the show much more.
Say what you want about MY opinions (all they are is YOUR opinions after all), but I've NEVER done ANYTHING but treat the people around me at a show (or here online) with RESPECT.
You must have heard that word once or twice in your life, no?
At least as in "You have no respect" I'm sure......
Bucky - I was at the same show with Rasta and the rude friend. I was the one who told you you were right. In fact, the rude friend, who is a friend of mine too, did the same shit at the ABB show at the Beacon on 3/15 (almost the same seats). I had to tell him to shut up myself. And, it's never appropriate to make fat jokes to strangers. Rasta and the rude guy are both excellent people and dear friends of mine. Let's stick to the music which hopefully tonight will be mindblowing. See ya soon!!
And, of course, all would have been forgotten if that mountain jam ended with a blue sky - i'm still shocked it didn't happen!!
Yeah, these new people bought the restaurant I work at.
Turks, nice family.
They get this Turkish
'chef' (cook, yes, chef? hardly).
I see him, introduce myself.
"Hey, You very skinny guy"
"You very skinny guy"
"You never met me & that's the first thing you say to me? Say that to the wrong guy, & he'll punch you in the nose"
2 days later, they fired him.
I'm still there.
And like I said, I can take a joke, but be my friend first. Then, I'll give as good as I take.
I used to work with a guy, nice fellow. I'd walk in the restaurant, or he would, & he'd go "Hey, Hey, Hey!"
You know, like Fat Albert.
No problem (until about the 700th time....)
BTW, I'm on a diet. Down 30+ Lbs.
And, I swam a mile today without stopping, 46 minutes.
Crusty old fart, I used to do that in 36-40 minutes........
bucky as much as your posts baffle me I will still reach out and say good job keep it up yada yada yada ...
they say that the single most detrimental thing one can do to themselves is a seditary lifestyle.
your opinions (however wrong they may be) are your business but fair game after you write them.
your personal attributes should remain off limits
Anyone who needs to use that to support their side of an arguement is in over their head...
GO, Bucky, GO!! Rastafari, you've got a lot to learn. Anyone calling himself Peter Tosh has no business spreading the negative vibe by poking fun at another brother!! You may not like the man's opinions, but do realize he's been in this scene WAY longer than a 20+ something rookie!! Don't mean to be so harsh, but you youngins need an ass whoopin' once in a while!!
>> Crusty old fart, I used to do that in 36-40 minutes........
I was referring more to the opinons expressed, rather than the atheletic lifestyle led...
And, like I said before...I loves you both (whoa, but Jesus loves you the best)...
I am always amazed at the way these topics eventually morph into some kind of argument and then after a little tiff between BROTHERS, (as we all are brothers and sisters), apologies are made, we go off to the next show and wish for whatever expectation we might have and move on...simply amazing.
#2 As for Candyman being Laughable..
Nothing Jerry Garcia ever played or did is Laughable you should be ashamed of yourselves bashing the memory of someone, who out of kindness created this whole scene, played his music night after night after night, for 30 goddamn years straight. My only condolence will come from the thought that someday, somebody will stand over your grave and say something that you put your heart and soul into your whole life was "laughable"......
>> Nothing Jerry Garcia ever played or did is Laughable
What about Faniculi Fanicula tunings? Or the Merry Go Round tunings? Those are kind of funny!
And Jenny Jenkins is a humerous song...Or Ain't No Bugs on Me...
"peanut sittin' on the side of the road, his heart was all aflutter...Along comes a railroad down the track, TOOT TOOT -- peanutbutter!"
Not to get in the middle of this, but the setlist from last night at the Philmore, THAT'S a damn setlist!!!!!!!!!!!! (esp. 2nd set)
And why can't Bucky & KJ have their own opinions about what they like in a PLQ concert without getting slammed? To each his own.
FWIW, I HATED the PLQ set at the Xmas Jam. Even the Lovelight at the end with Col Bruce & Robert Randolph didn't save it for me, IMHO.
I guess the money Jerry made had nothing to do with it, huh?
It was all out of his benevolent kindness.
Second...some o' you guys are like my kids..you hear what you want to hear.
I NEVER said "Candyman", as an entity unto itself, was laughable.
I said, in reply to your statement Billy, that quote.."Candyman" is awesome...that THAT statement is laughable in comparing THAT song to what is TRULY and GENUINELY...AWESOME material.
Go look at the 2nd set from last night...4/4/02.
Take a look at what people are saying regarding THAT.
Are you HONESTLY going to try and equate "Candyman" with THAT?
And, just to clarify...we don't dislike Hunter/Garcia tunes...last night was RIFE with them...the only one I personally don't feel lives up to the rest during last night's show, is "Stella".
Why not throw "Morning Dew" in there?
Tell me THAT wouldn't have been the PERFECT set ender to THAT set!
Just shows to go ya Keyshawn. I'll take Stella over Morning Dew any day. Go figure.
I love them both. And HUNTER did not write the lyrics to Morning Dew.
Bonnie Dobson wrote Morning Dew.
By me saying throw "Morning Dew" in there...I didn't mean change out one Hunter song for another.
It's widely known that "Morning Dew" has been around a while before The Dead were a band, and such diverse musicians such as Jeff Beck and Devo have also covered it.
My inference was that "Morning Dew"...for ME..is a WAY better, more DRAMATIC piece of music than "Stella" could ever hope to be.
Hey Keyshawn you heard Jazz is Dead's Morning Dew? ... I thought JID sorta sucked til I picked up Great Sky River .. but it's a great CD, with an EPIC Dew on which Jimmy tears it up
Misunderstood ya Keyshawn. Sorry. I didnt know Devo covered it. Thats frightening. HEHE.
Oh....and opinions differ. I've Seen many a Stella that was quite the tearjerker. But morning dew is a great tune as well.
Tyler..Art...I'll have to check that out. "Morning Dew", for some very big reasons and memories, is a TOP personal favorite. EVERY time I hear it...even from Devo..LOL..it affects me in a most profound way.
Thanks for the tip!
>"Morning Dew", for some very big reasons and memories, is a TOP personal favorite.
Well, there ya go, Keysh. Why can Stella not have some very big memories for someone else, making it one of their favorites? And the Jerry solo at the end is always different and often breathtaking.
And Bucky, although I did say the 12/1 was one of the lamest shows I've seen by phil, the 11/30 was one of the best...
In the case of "Stella"...you are very astute. Point well taken.
However..lol..there's ALWAYS an "however"...what started this raging debate is the ALREADY legendary "Candyman Hysteria" of 2002.
People runnin' wild in the streets...looting...pillaging...leaving nothing in its wake, but a wide swath of mass delusion.
The dementia that can perpetuate the notion that "Candyman" has the musical BALLS to stand toe to toe with "Dark Star"..."The Other One" (with or without "Cryptical")..."St. Stephen"..."The Eleven"..."Viola"..."Morning Dew"..."Help">"Slipknot">"Franklin's"...et al...MUST be STOPPED!
"Candyman"...to be played in the middle of a second set, where the pieces of music listed above USUALLY reside, is a collective case of not utilizing the resources at this bands' disposal, in their most potent and lethal manner.
It's as simple as that.
right on. I'm not really going to defend candyman.
First, tell me Keysh & I don't have some serious stroke with Phil.
We start complaining, he sees it, & says "I'll show those crusty old farts a REAL setlist."
But seriously, folks, take Rastacruz......
Da Da Dunt Chih.....
No, but truely seriously, What's in the water out there in Colorado?
Dark Star >
Other One >
The Eleven >
Dark Star >
Cumberland verse 2 >
Awesome show if you don't have it, get it. E-mail me...
The Eleven >
Keep on growing
50 minutes, with Derek Trucks, & the best 11 I've ever heard.
Nice 20 minute Just A Little light (really, no exageration), etc.
First set: killer Masons, Shakedown > Blue Sky
short Jam >
Franklins (50 minutes by then) >
Dark Star >
Dark Star >
E: St Stephen (one of the best) > NFA reprise
Then, last night:
Open with Mason's
2nd set, with Derek:
Wharf Rat >
Other One >
St Stephen >
Dark Star >
Dark Star >
Bathroom, I mean Stella
Those Colorado heads, man they must be LIVID that they missed Candyman & got stuck with the same ol' same ol'.....
>>>>This deserves repeating: YOU ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY CAN NOT JUDGE A PHIL SHOW BY
Do you really believe that?
Then why do all the shows usually mentioned as the best by P&F (not PLQ, dammit!) seem to have most of the above (plus Viola) in them?
These seem to be the 3 most commonly acknowledged 'best' P&F shows by most.
You can in throw these as the 2nd level of most commonly mentioned shows:
And I'm not talking about just me. I'd throw 10-20-00 in there, but it seems to have escaped wide circulation.
But, are we seeing a pattern here?
Yes, I think we are. Notice which songs keep popping up. Some material is just better to work with.
Like, for example, 2 people could train exactly the same, & one would learn to run better, & the other could make the Olympics.
But, no amount of training is going to make an Olympic athlete out of somebody without the potential to begin with.
And, some songs have more potential for greatness than others......
Do you think this set could ever match ANY of the sets I just mentioned?:
Dire Wolf >
Stella Blew >
Forrest of Fenario
Ship of Fools >
Now, c'mon, be honest.......
I agree with many of your points, but, for the record 5/27/00 did not have a Viola in it. It does however match pretty up well with what you and Keysh swear by:
05/27/00 Mountain Aire Music Festival, Calavaras County Fairgrounds - Angel's Camp, CA
Set 1: Help On The Way > Slipknot > Franklin's Tower > Childhood's End, Here Comes Sunshine* > Blue Sky*
Set 2: Dark Star > Other One > Cryptical Envelopment > The Eleven > Dark Star > New Speedway Boogie > Fire On The Mountain, E: Why Don't We Do It In The Road > Alabama Getaway
7/1/01 Greek Theater has a sweet Viola comparable with 2/18/01 (I was lucky enough to be at both).
I know no show has EVERYTHING, but there seems to be certain songs which keep popping up at the most widely acknowledged 'best' shows:
Help > Slip > Franklins
The Other One
Viola Lee Blues
or, something like a 45 minute Dancin' > Scarlet > Dancin
Funny, I don't keep noticing Stella, Ship of Fools, Candyman or Attics (ralph....!)
>>>>Now, c'mon, be honest.......
I'm glad this is in the "April Fools" thread. When I'm at a show & hear a song that I'm not particularily fond of, it's a great time to sit down & puff a bowl or go to the bathroom. I don't complain about it. And I certainly don't complain in Philzone about which songs suck, because a person that loves that tune really doesn't want to hear it. Catch my drift Key & Buck?
>>>>>Funny, I don't keep noticing Stella, Ship of Fools, Candyman or Attics (ralph....!)
Bucky, if we always heard
>>>> Help > Slip > Franklins
The Other One
Viola Lee Blues
then what would be so special about it? What opinionated b/s, to say that shows w/ the songs that you can't stand aren't worthy. Then again, it brings back memories of the thread "P&F" better than the Dead ever was"
"Special" really has very little to do with it.
If they played "St.Stephen", or "Dark Star", or "Viola",or "Dancin'", or "The Eleven", or a FULL "That's It For The Other One" EVERY night..it WOULD make them less special...but what it would NOT do is diminish the QUALITY (i.e. the GREATNESS) of them.
The pieces of music are what they are.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
And conversely, if you drop a diamond in the mud..it gets dirty..but its STILL a diamond.
>>>>because a person that loves that tune really doesn't want to hear it. Catch my drift Key &
Don't like this thread?
Go read one of the other 2500 threads up here instead.....
Or start one more to your liking:
'Why we should worship the Grateful Dead & be thankful for the greatness of EVERYTHING they ever did or will do, together or solo'
In the scope of REAL life, how important is whether I think slow Jerry songs without Jerry are even more boring than most were with him?
(sans Morning Dew, Comes a Time & China Doll)
Is it worth getting upset over?
Especially if it is said by 2 such crusty old farts (I like that, Rev) like me & Key, who have obviously proved what idiots we are by now to you?
I know, to some of you, this is real life.
To some of us though, we haven't decided to build our entire life around some 1967 summer of love neo-hippy nostalgia trip lifestyle.
We just go to have a good time & enjoy some good music.
That doesn't mean we have to love every song or we have to go out & protest the next military engagement the USA gets into or campaign for Comrade Clinton in 2004 if she runs for President.....
bucky - i have to say nothing personal also, and just becuz i felt shocked by your opinions and responded - i come at you with NO disrespect - just an opinion in it's self.
i have to say i've been belly laughing with joy actually to some of the responces this created.. it's great cept' the personal stuff - no good.. but it reveals another side of reference to the dead and phil shows.. only bands in the world we all feel so passionate about and know EVERYTHING about.. also i don't tour like most here at philzone - but keep up now these days on these posts.. and i think if phil plays any old song - gem or not at all there is a reason - sometimes it may or may not make everybody in the place happy, but just the fact they dust em' off is such a compliment to themselves.. maybe phil happens to like the songs he chooses to play more than others we'd all prefer.. you NEVER know with these guys.. it's mostly all hear say and i'll leave it at that.. just an opinion again.
don't give up on the band.. they are adjusting and implementing a bunch of new and old tunes into the sets now - new album and all.. and things will change - and when we all look back on it like we do the dead shows.. we will still have our sacred opinions forever..
god bless the dead and all of us who come together to celebrate life and love!!!
Hey Bucky, no To Lay Me Down?
Thank god up until now, that I have not went to a show and had them play "candyman" as an opener, for if this little spec of a song, the metaphor of a pimple on Jerry's ass, had reared it's ugly head I would of had to pack the gear, turn to the aisle, and walked straight out of the theater! Yelling @ phil saying, "where is the Viola"? You suck Phil... hehehehe just an illustration of how foolish this all seems to me. now if you would like to hear what I THINK makes a show special ( and notice I said THINK, qualifiying it as an opinion only), I look around, see some of my close friends having fun, looking at the little blow up beach ball being tapped around the venue, hearing great MUSIC (not favorite songs) being jammed out, walking out of the venue breathing,loving, seeing with me own eyes and having the good grace of god give me decent ears to hear all of this beauty with, and finally knowing that I am part of a VERY SPECIAL community that embraces it's musicians and celebrates life with each note and new songs to fill the air, and being ALIVE to live it all now that my friends is truly Special.....this post is dedicated to the memory of my close dear best friend that passed away on March 03rd, 2002 Steven Bossard,.... may you be forever young!!
>>>maybe phil happens to
like the songs he chooses to play more than others we'd all prefer.. you NEVER know with
Well, yes, I would have to agree.
I don't think he's saying "This will REALLY piss them off when we play Candyman in the 2nd set."
Funny, 2 years ago, there was an interview up here with Warren. Maybe it's still here.
He said 'Days Between' was his favorite song to play......
>>>Hey Bucky, no To Lay Me Down?
I loved To Lay Me Down when the Dead played it.
Moreso until '82-'83. The few '90's ones were a bit too slow for me.
I loved Comes A Tine too.
Problem was, that special magic wasn't there IMO when Warren did Comes A Time on 11-26-01.
>>>>now if you would like to hear what I
THINK makes a show special ( and notice I said THINK, qualifiying it as an opinion only), I
look around, see some of my close friends having fun, looking at the little blow up beach
ball being tapped around the venue, hearing great MUSIC (not favorite songs) being jammed
1. We've admitted it's just OUR opinion!
2. It seems, as we already said, that the shows that are most commonly called the best have the same tunes I want to see in them, especially in the 2nd set.
3. I HATE beach balls & balloons. Nothing like a beachball hitting you in the head when you're trying to listen to ......
4. From your post, Billy, I think it would be fair to say you've built more of your life around the whole 'Deadhead Philosophy' than I have.
To me, it's just fun, & The Other One is more fun than Candyman - to me!
On Thursday, April 4, at 8:12am, Matthew Baxter's comment to me was:
"Hey KJ, its not your band."
I totally disagree...it IS our band.
Without US..the fans, where are they?
This band is capable of SUSTAINED GREATNESS on a CONSISTENT BASIS.
Why the criticism for demanding the BEST they have to offer?
Imagine how boring life would be if we knew the answer. I doubt as if there would be any will to live, or at least there would be no will to learn if it was all understood.
So whats all this talk about Phil should do this, or jerry would have done it different. You play that ol 7/17/89 tape long enough and its going to wear out.
You know you're a dinosaur when you can't except change anymore. And theres a reason why dinosaurs are extinct.
So if you don't like the show, stop crowding the dancefloor!
>>>>You know you're a dinosaur when you can't except change anymore. And theres a reason
why dinosaurs are extinct.
You know you're not a brain surgeon when you say 'except' when you mean 'accept'......
Is that the one with the midi space into the drums then the supposedly greatest ever Other One in Berkeley?
Boy, did that make me chuckle when I read that in Deadbase. Yeah, it's better than Rochester '77, let alone ANY TOO from '69-'71......
Really, I haven't listened to ANY Dead, even from 2-13-70, 12-31-72 or 5-2-70, let alone the late 80's since P&F came along.....
How's that for change, you whipper snapper?
Didn't someone tell us we WERE DINOSAURS in Giants Stadium's parking lot on July 3, NINETEEN EIGHTYNINE?
I guess we've just got to ACCEPT the fact that we ARE a rare breed, however.....
We're NOT extinct YET, whippasnappa!!!!!
>>>>I guess we've just got to ACCEPT the fact that we ARE a rare breed,
You certainly are..
Better than marching with the 'zombified' masses into the meat grinder during 'Another Brick in the Wall' in the movie version of 'The Wall'.........
Hey Rasta: you weren't the dude who borrowed my bong at the Beacon (thrice) only to pack it for you & your friend and offer me nada??
talk about rude
love to you all
uhm, that's rastafari Peter Tosh to whom I am speaking, not the good ole' RastaCruz we all know & love...
Well Ihad a really good time at this show it was my first birthday show ever. I stopped reading the comment at the top of this board because it seems like the most of you folks are just pissin' and mownin'. It's about the music it's not about you. I wont knock you for having your opinions. But it all about living in the positive. I don't understand what the problem is. Phil still rocks and always will. Maybe you people that go to a bunch of shows and get so spoiled should stop going for awhile then you might really be able to appreciate the music a little bit more. This really was a fantastic show. I though it just rocked. I haven't been fooled so many times in my life. The magic is still there and always will be you're the one that makes it what it is. I will be counting on a St. Stephen the next time. The Golden Road to Unlimted Devotion. I was with that girl barefootin' along, so sweet. Cumberland lifted me up off the ground. Bertha is Bertha. She Said She Said a great Gov't Mule tune I really dig Warrens voice. I lived in the Cold,Rain and Snow in a 25 ft. long trailer this winter it changed my life. I really appreciate these beautiful human beings still kicking down the absolutely fantastic fun lovin' tunes. I'm so happy that I got on the bus. Where will it takes us next. Quit bitchin' and start dancin', or make room for me cause I'm gonna keep dancin' my ass off. It feels so good. Thank you Phil for a wonderful birthday party. One Love
Just a quick note. My first dead show 3-28-72
there was no real first set, second set type tunes yet. Middle of second set they played
Two souls in Communion(Pig Pen). I wouldn't trade it for any barn burner.
Just thought I'd add my two cents. \
Much love, Rob Barraco
Hey Rob we love you here in idaho and hope that you fellas keep coming back and blowing our friggin minds.
All the upset over Phil singing Candyman?! You complainers should follow this link to hear what Jerry had to say about roots music. Maybe we should all just listen to the music play...my 2 cents
those of you who dont like Phil's Candyman can go to the bathroom when he plays it and take a big long leak for me....please
Hye Rob, thank you!!
Are you enjoying the William Blake?
We're WAAAAAAY ahead of ya!
That's EXACTLY what we do...and HAVE BEEN doing for "Candyman" for DECADES!
>>>>All the upset over Phil singing Candyman?! You complainers should follow this link to hear
what Jerry had to say about roots music.
No offense to Jerry or Phil, or Bob, or whoever plays the music, but I just really don't care what they like or what roots they got inspiration from.
I only care about hearing what I like.
Jerry, when alive, could go play bluegrass all he wanted.
I just wouldn't be paying to hear it.
I was having a private discussion with a young guy about the subject of ABB setlists (you must know where I stand on that by now).
He says, "You know, THE BAND is also up there to have fun."
So, I say, "When they pay ME $40-$50 to listen to them have fun, I won't say a word about what they play."
It's pretty simple. You can look at it kinda like gambling. The higher the risk the bigger the payout, but also the bigger the possible disappointment. If you're not a gambling man, look at what the band has been doing lately and if it doesn't suit you, don't waste your money.
Remember, you're not the only one paying their hard earned money to see them play.
I agree with Peten,
>>look at what the band has been doing lately and if it doesn't suit you, don't waste your money, give it to charity.
I want the world and I want it now.
Let phil play whatever the fuck he wants. Sheesh
you never let me use your bong the night of the Beacon. No one ever let me use their bong, THAT WAS THE PROBLEM...
You don't show any love my way???
What's up with that?
If you don't know me personally, don't send any hate my way. That's uncool.
My beef with Bucky and Keyshawn had nothing to do with you or anything that you were involved in. Please, don't comment about something you know nothing about. bucky and keyshawn know my comments are just comments and when i meet them at the vibes, I'll be showing them a lot of love and herb. Because of your recent statement, you'll be shown NONE!!!
Think before you speak or write. THIS HAS NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to do with you
Boy Art you took the words right out of my mouth again..............jeezzzzzzz......well said brother!
I think playing the same songs every night SEVERELY limits the bands ability to improvise. I mean there is only so many times you can play Dark Star before you run out of things to say, y'know? Taking a week off from a song will highly increase the quality when it is played, because the musicians will have MORE to say and it will be a whole lot more interesting. Bucky, if the musicians aren't having fun it's not gunna be fun for you! It's a mutual thing! If they are bored, tired, and worn out the music will be too. *shrugs*
Hey rastafari I think you should share with Jill anyway. Ain't no time to hate.
>>> think playing the same songs every night SEVERELY limits the bands ability to improvise. I
mean there is only so many times you can play Dark Star before you run out of things to
1. Nobody ever asked or expects them to play the same thing every night.
2. Actually, I hope nobody, ABB included plays 'The Same Thing'.
3. If Dark Star can 'run out of things to say', how quick does Ship of Fools or Candyman run out of things to say?
4. There are MANY bands playing thousands of songs like Candyman, Attics & Ship of Fools. How many play ANYTHING like Dark Star, The Other One or The Eleven?
You're right about Dark Star being something totally unique that no other band is doing, or has ever done. Can you honestly say though, that you don't care if Phil and the boys are having fun? I really think their state of mind affects the music more than anything else. If they aren't having fun the music ain't gunna be fun either.
PS - Phil, try to have fun with something besides Candyman
>"Good Lovin' is KILLER material
Well, it almost killed many people at the Philmore and was definitely a smokin' version, which I am sure will come through on the tapes...
>And THAT...is simply unacceptable.
Not to many of us!
>ask me what an 8 Track is.
The last 8 Track I bought had Duane playin' on it and he was still living!
>Personally, I think lots of folks are having a blast.
I'm with you Huck!
>If the MUSIC is so important, why is there talking going on THROUGH the music?
Keesh, on this we can agree, my own #1 pet peeve; with space crashers comin' on strong at #2!
>I've NEVER done ANYTHING but treat the people around me at a show (or here online) with RESPECT.
Well, Bucky you and Keyshawn can share space with Carol and I at any show, as long as you don't complain about the setlist until its over. ;-)
Geeze, I'm only up to about showtime on the 4th!
>Those Colorado heads, man they must be LIVID that they missed Candyman
Well, can't and wouldn't speak for anyone else in CO, but I wouldn't have been LIVID if they HAD played it either.
>We just go to have a good time & enjoy some good music.
Maybe it would help if you kept your opinions to these shows and those that some Kind phriend has made sure you could at least listen to. Doubt if you have any of the 4 winds shows yet and certainly doubt if you had them by the time you guys started in on this thread...
>I HATE beach balls & balloons.
Presume you mean at shows? I hate marshmallows, just because the floor is usually sticky enough with all the spilled drinks.
>Why the criticism for demanding the BEST
Maybe because it is demanding; not requesting, not hoping for, but demanding and critisizing, if you don't get what you want.
>Think before you speak or write.
Practice what you preach, why don't you? You got a lot to learn about Love, maybe that's why no one shares there bong of much of anything else with you. I said maybe!
I've got my own karma to tend to, but this thread like so many others has been full of too much of what is wrong with the world today and not enough of what we all are supposed to share and embrace.
One Love indeed!
Anyone else find it really cool that Rob posted on this thread!? Hey Rob!~
And it really is him, just try to click on his name/profile, it won't let ya.
Guess the band does read the reviews afterall? :>
There's been a lot of talk here regarding the band having fun while they play.
Whether the general populous of US...the fans...would care to admit this or not...the fact is, is that being musicians is their JOB.
They DO make money EVERY TIME they play in public.
That money comes from US.
Ergo..they are, in effect, WORKING for myself, Bucky, and everyone else who has PAID to be in attendance at a given show.
WE are the employer.
And as their employer the DEMAND that they give us the BEST they have to offer is WELL WITHIN reason.
THAT is what's EXPECTED by ANY employer of ANYONE in their EMPLOY.
It's MY fun I'm most concerned about at a show.
Is there ANYONE amongst us willng to say that their best is "Candyman"..."Ship of Fools"..."Dire Wolf", et al...or would their best be more like "Dark Star"...The Other One"..."St. Stephen"..."The Eleven"..."Viola"...or, "Help">"Slipknot">"Franklin's", et al?
Bucky and I would be GLAD to spend a show with yourself and your lady.
Hell...we don't even speak to EACH OTHER until the house lights are raised.
And if Keyshawn does, in my best Chris Jericho imitation, I'll tell him to...............
"SHUT THE HELL UP!"
Like on 10-16-00 during Just A Little Light
Rob, if that's you, tell Phil to play St Stephen > The Eleven and Crptical > Other One .... Other One > Cryptical.
Like it should be.
Really, drop me a line, Rob.
I'll give you a setlist to pass on to Phil for the next show I go to.
I never looked at playing music as a job.
Believe me, I feel extremely fortunate to be
communing with the likes of Phil, Warren, John and
Jimmy. I was born to do this and played music for many years without making a decent living. I am lucky I get paid to do what I do, but, would do it for nothing if I had to.
Every time we hit the stage there is the promise that we will go to "the zone"! This is what we all live for. It is like gambling in that sometimes you win......
Going to see any live music you run the risk of
the artist not fully connecting. But when they do
isn't it all worth it? With this music, we look to go to the zone any time, in any song. This is why we experiment with different songs. Cumberland Blues is a perfect example of a song that we have mined and struck gold. It could happen in any tune on any given night!! It's all subjective anyway.
Some nights I swear I've never heard or played such incredible music only to find some of my band mates thought it was dismal! And visa versa.
The main thing is, everyone including the musicians, techs, audiance have a great experience. Aren't we all lucky to be living in a time where we can experience and enjoy?!!!!!!!!!!!
Love and peace to you all, Rob Barraco
PS Song selection is dictated by the story that we are telling on that night. It's all in the journey, not the destination. You have to look at the whole picture and at the same time be in the moment. Whew, how do you do it? RB
>THAT is what's EXPECTED by ANY employer of ANYONE in their EMPLOY.
OK Keesh, I'll accept your employer/employee analogy as valid. I guess a lot depends on what you call the best? I give my best regardless of what task I have set before me or that I have taken upon myself to work on, because I rarely wait for someone to tell me what needs to be done.
By the same token, installing a whole new system or building an entirely new network is completely different than routine auditing of security logs or installing some S/W or adding a couple of users. I still give my best though regardless and the work is still important to my employer.
So wouldn't you agree that its possible that the band has given us their best even if its on some song that you don't particularly like?
>Whew, how do you do it? RB
Gratefully! Thanks Rob!!!!
Well said Rob,
True to the Spirit of the Music.
"Thus men fogot that All deities reside in the human breast"-WBlake
"Art is long. Life is brief." -- PLesh
Thank you Rob!!!
Honest question, honest answer:
Do you think that Dire Wolf or Candyman can get into the same 'zone' as Saint Stephen, The Eleven or The Other One?
I know I don't.
One more thing I'd like to know about & I have wondered about since I saw the pre-written setlist from 10-14-00 after the show:
If each show tells a story, well, a few seem obvious, like the night Ken Kesey died, or 12-01-01 & some others where a Blues Theme seems to prevail.
But, just to pull a show out of the air, what story was Phil trying to tell on 11-20-01 in Oakdale?
How about Hartford 7-21-01?
PS: Tell Phil to break out Big Railroad Blues.......
>>>>"! This is what we all live for. It is like gambling in that sometimes you win......
Going to see any live music you run the risk of
the artist not fully connecting. But when they do
isn't it all worth it?
Right on Rob! It's so worth it, & we are damn lucky to be a part of it. It's a great time to be alive. Being happy for what we have & not unhappy for what we don't have is very important. It's all about keepin the positive energy flowing. :*) (If that's the real Mr. Barraco; hell, even if it's not, all I can say is "THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU"
Bucky, just as we all perceive the music in our own way, I think the same applies w/ the story the music is telling us. It's in the eye of the beholder.
>>Do you think that Dire Wolf or Candyman can get into the same 'zone' as Saint Stephen, The Eleven or The Other One?
Damn man, just let it go, why ask dumb questions?? this is getting to the point where it seems that if a song doesnt hit you in a big way you toss it out like a piece of garbage. Sorry if Im sounding rash, but I mean too, for this is where you think the music revolves around you. Any band can play whatever they want, its your choice to hop on. All this endless nonsense and complaining...and if your dig is Candyman, I say yes it can get into the zone.
>>But, just to pull a show out of the air, what story was Phil trying to tell on 11-20-01 in Oakdale? How about Hartford 7-21-01?
I dont think there is a specific story in mind with all the shows Bucky, why dont you relax, listen to the music, let your imagination wander and maybe it will come to you.
>>Bucky, just as we all perceive the music in our own way, I think the same applies w/ the story the music is telling us. It's in the eye of the beholder.
I, also, would like to thank you for taking the time to weigh in with the feelings ONLY someone INSIDE the band can have, know, and relate.
What you've said is all valid...however I don't think you really can deny that some pieces of music have the POTENTIAL to create more diverse interpretations than others (be it a more spacier, mellower, or more ferocious version at any given show).
It's THAT potential that I feel drives this band to incredible heights.
THAT, really, is all we're saying...and THOSE pieces are what I, and if I can speak for Bucky, he, cherish MOST in the music The Grateful Dead first created, and you guys are now carrying forward.
How 'bout tryin' "Sugar Mag" without Bob?
Two thoughts on Candyman.
First, the potential of a song is both in the music and in the players at the time they are playing it. If the band is feeling "Dark Star here we go again crank it out one more time", it doesn't have much potential *that show*. I go to shows to have fun, and when the band is having fun, I tend to too, so if they are burnt on the Dark Star and eager for the Candyman or whatever, I'll agree with the call, *that night*.
Second is the classic French cuisine theory. You put a little salad course inbetween the heavies - clears the palate, freshens the perspective, lets you perceive the next epic jam on it's own.
Hey guys. You all make compelling points.
Those songs that you think don't go to the same places as others were not designed to go there.
There are so many spaces that music and art can go to. AND although an artist can perceive and
execute vision, it's only from his perspective.
All art is to the beholder to interpret.
As far as the story that Phil intends, you would have to ask him. Each member of the band has a part to play in telling it. Only after the fact can a judgment be made as to how successful the story telling was and is still extremely subjective.
From my many years of seeing and listening to Dead music I came to the conclusion that I had to commit to each show in it's entirety and quit being judgmental about every tune and moment.(This is soley for me)
It's all about surrendering preconceived notions
and embracing the moment. Not everything can be
interpreted or explained.
I saw Robert Hunter last night in Portland, OR. He reminded me that those songs, Candyman, etc. tell incredible tails and have many messages for so many people. Just because they weren't designed to go to the same places as Dark Star or The Other One doesn't mean
they souldn't be played. I love those songs and
the band decided to experiment with playing them.
We have to give them a chance to grow and discover what each one's potential is for our band.
The last paragraph of the last post sums it up nicely.
Love and peace and light, Rob Barraco
I now know why Phil selected you to join him in his musical journey. You seem to be a pretty insightful individual and have raised some very legitimate points.
As for me though, what in the music has grabbed me by the balls...and held me for 22.5 years now as a Deadhead ARE the musical pieces that DO go to "those places".
And at a show...when you guys are coming down the homestretch, so to speak, to MY ears, THAT'S what grabs me..shakes me..and leaves me in an eargasmic, exhaustive heap!
That's NOT to say that "Candyman" for example, should NOT be played...just that I don't think it and other "similiar" tunes, carries THAT kind of power (and POWER doesn't necessarily mean FAST..i.e. "Morning Dew") to be given the position in the show that it was given.
My position is that none of the tunes mentioned in my post above are bad songs, quite to the contrary, ESPECIALLY given most of the musical garbage that permeates the airwaves of today...JUST THAT, to ME, they CAN'T CARRY THE MOMENTUM, as you guys bring us down that homestretch.
That being said...PLAY...PLAAAAY...PLAAAAAAAAY!!!
Play it LOUD...and Play it LONG!!
And play "Sugar Mag" in Hartford on July 18th!!!
YOU sing it..you don't need Bob.
Sweeeeeeeet Magnolia Daydream.........
>>It's all about surrendering preconceived notions
and embracing the moment..... Enjoy what is happening in the now........I agree 100% .....is that an alias or Phil`s friend ???
You know, when I went to 14 shows in May '81, I had that view.
I knew I'd get alot of stuff I didn't particularly like, & the band wasn't going to play anything else but Red Rooster while they were playing Red Rooster.
But, I still woulda rather heard Lazy Lightning > Supplication there.
>>>>Damn man, just let it go, why ask dumb questions?? this is getting to the point where it
seems that if a song doesnt hit you in a big way you toss it out like a piece of garbage.
Yeah, 22 years is a hard habit to break......
And you know what?
I don't want to.
BTW, bottom line:
If Phil hadn't raised the bar so high, & gone so far in intensity, creativity & improvisation that half the P&F shows I've seen were better than ANY of the 97 Dead shows I saw since 1979 (including 9-2-80 or 5-6-81), I wouldn't expect so much........
Tell Phil I said that Rob.
I get flamed for it all the time here.
But, what P&F can do is what I always wanted the Dead to be. I thought I'd missed it by 5 years (1974) & what you guys have given us the last 2-3 years is a special gift, IMHO, especially considering it's SEVEN years after Jerry died.
Bucky I do agree that it has come to my attention that phil's band has GOT IT... and I have said that Phils band can and has, on occasion outjammed the dead that is to say, the shows were better.....
Rob, keep in touch, tell Phil that WE ALL love him for his courage and for that light he has brought back into so many of our lives.. you guys are a special band and have etched a place into my heart thanks.......
rob, you guys kick so much ass it's NEARLY impossible to dance the whole show
caution , blew me away
again and again , beautiful
how bout a little rappin' during the next good lovin'... push back ,push back the night
looking foreward to this summer and everything phil and friends bring
Rob, My job is to be GRATEFUL and LISTEN and DANCE. I hope I'm living up to your expectations.If not please Email me and I will be more GRATEFUL and LISTEN more and DANCE more. Play what you want, when you want and where you want. WE WILL BE THERE AND BACK AGAIN.
I think I'm going to cry........
Time for a group hug.........
C'mon Kevin...get a grip.
If you're willing to settle for less than the best in ANY situation...you're selling yourself WAY short.
Hey Rob, I'll send ya a five piece if you get Phil to bust out Expressway to your Heart or, say, Caution > East-West > Caution!
Honestly, tho, thanks for the music!!!
Key, not willin to get in a big tiff over it.I've listened to many people dis set lists and songs over the years.I'm guilty too.Walked on a few liberty's and lots of I fought the law's. Most of the time I would start looking around when a song I didn't like or didn't have a groove for me was playing. What I noticed is that there were tons of people who didn't notice at all. They were dancing and singing and twirlling.Your perfect show is yours. There is not one I know of I would throw back. Remember the famine and heartbreak of 1996. I'm just Grateful and wanted to relay that message.
P.S. never thought the boys worked for me. I just thought they liked us.Because we are open and willing stand by them though anything. Even I FOUGHT THE LAW
Kevin...we're obviously coming from 2 different mind sets.
By the time The Dead were playing "Liberty" and "I Fought The Law"...I thought they had been washed up for YEARS.
I stopped seeing the band REGULARLY after Hartford on October 15, 1984. Went back in '87, on July 12 to Giants Stadium and walked out before the 2nd set was over, vowing never to go back. I thought THEN they were a mere SHELL of their former selves. Then, Brent died, and Hornsby came on board...infusing new life into them...ESPECIALLY Jerry. So...I went back. Saw a handful of shows each year from '91 through '93.
In '93, I saw them June 6, at Giants Stadium...June 13, at what was THEN called Rich Stadium in Buffalo...and September 20, at Madison Square Garden.
All 3 of the shows were PARTICULARLY lame...ESPECIALLY the one in Buffalo.
In Giants Stadium, on June 6...they had a 15 minute or so spurt, during "Playin'", where they somewhat recaptured the old magic. But that was it.
On September 20, with Edie Brickell chanting through the "Space", and into "The Other One"...there were SOME flashes...but it was plainly, and PAINFULLY obvious...it was over.
And PHIL, in later years, has admitted as much. His quote, as I recall was, "We never quite caught that spark again after '91".
Phil, as Bucky has said, has since RAISED THE BAR so high, and played EVERYTHING with a RENEWED PASSION of which The Dead were simply incapable of achieving, on a CONSISTENT, night in..night out basis, for MANY, MANY YEARS.
Where were the "Violas"..."The Elevens"...the "St. Stephens"?
Even "Dark Star" was only able to regain its former majesty for a few years...from October 9, 1989, in Hampton, VA., billed as The Warlocks for that show, by the way, to around '92. Check the Deadbases. See how LITTLE they were expanding on "Dark Star" by '92.
THAT is why, with Phil, we have come to EXPECT the HIGHEST level of GREATNESS...and when they insert a "Candyman" for instance, in a slot where it KILLS the momentum built...it DOES take the air out of the balloon, so to speak.
You say they "like us".
That may be true, but within that, I'm also QUITE sure they "LIKE" the lifestyle they live BECAUSE of US.
Without US, where are they?
You guys just dont get it, GO TO THE POTTY when they play that song you dont like and STOP BITCHIN.
>>Without US, where are they?
Musicians, and we should be grateful to them for playing us a tune.
BTW, 7/17/89 is from Alpine Valley. It's the show on Downhill from Here...
No Other One out of Space, just some really really tight playing.
It's YOU guys that deify these individuals.
They are HUMAN BEINGS with the same flaws and foibles as everyone else...they happen to be blessed with a talent to create and produce music.
Being a concert veteran of 29 years now, I enjoy the HELL out of the music I listen to...but to "hope I'm living up to their expectations"..to paraphrase Kevin...OR to be "grateful to them for playing us a tune" (paraphrasing Traffic and "Dear Mr. Fantasy")...well, I just can't see it that way.
This is ENTERTAINMENT, guys.
And...while it IS A F**K OF A LOT OF FUN...does it provide for my family?
Does it raise my children?
Ask PHIL himself...as HE SAYS AFTER EVERY SHOW...who and what HE'S grateful for.
I don't think you're going to get "playing you a tune"...although that IS a by-product of the donor and doctors who saved his life.
It's all a matter of perspective, guys.
The music does ENRICH our lives...but is it a NECESSITY OF life?
As far as critiquing the band's work...80% to 90% of what I've personally witnessed from Phil & Friends has blown me away.
But when I feel that they've given less than their best effort, being a "Candyman" in the middle of a 2nd set...or a lackluster "St. Stephen" at the end of a very mediocre show at the Oakdale Theater in Wallingford, CT on November 20, 2001...I'm WELL WITHIN being reasonable in voicing displeasure.
Like I said...P&F have shown time and time and time again they are capable of SUSTAINED GREATNESS.
Why be satisfied with anything less?
If you guys look at the 'complaints' that Bucky and Keyshawn raise, I think you'll find that they're generally brought up out of humongous expectations and reverence for the music. They obviously love how good it can and should be, and want it to be that good every night. What's wrong with that?
A 54 Ring Gauge, 7 1/4" Hoyo De Monterrey Excalibur 1066, and a tip of my NY Jets baseball cap to YOU, Tyler!
Accursed double post from hell! ...... carry on
>Why be satisfied with anything less?
I'll be waiting with anticpation for a show where you and/or Bucky are satisfied. I won't hold my breath.
>But when I feel that they've given less than their best effort, being a "Candyman" in the middle of a 2nd set...
Were you at this show? Have you even heard the tapes? Then how do you know they've given less than there best effort?
Continue to critique the setlists and voice your displeasure. However I will continue to take exception with your calling the bands performance anything, if you weren't there to participate!
>>It's YOU guys that deify these individuals.
Where is this coming from? Who me? Nah, sure I get a little nervous and light headed when say the time Phil came and talked to me, but in no way am I dieying him. Phil is a human being as is anyone else, but I will be damn thankful to him for playing the music because it has hit me in such a strong spiritual manner. You dont feel grateful for the music? Then I am sorry, but thats your dig.
>>And...while it IS A F**K OF A LOT OF FUN...does it provide for my family?
If your family feels pleasure from it, see something they can understand, lives a little..just a little better because of it, then YES it does provide for them. If they dont see anything in, then NO, but no one asked them to take care of your family, did they?
>>The music does ENRICH our lives...but is it a NECESSITY OF life?
I grew up listening to this music, and emotionally it has nurtured me in a very amazing way. It is art, art influences my entire existence, how can it not teach me something?
As you said Keyshawn it IS a matter of perspective, I agree 100%, wheather you do it for entertainment, personal joy, or spirtitual enlightenment. To you a lackluster Saint Stephen or 2nd set Candyman, could be anothers joy, a very memorable moment for them, thats enough to legitimate it.
Not every show can or should have Viola, Eleven, Dark Star, blah blah blah...If they happen to play a song your not into, let it go, I am sure a song you love will come around shortly.
Keyshawn, it just a matter of enjoying the time you have with what you love, it wont be around forever, sit back and listen to the river sing sweet songs to rock your soul.
peace and love
you dont think 9/20/90 was one of the best althea's ever?
and in perspective, wouldn't seeing a top 5 performance of a single tune make it worth the price of addmission...the stranger,and truckin>china>rider also smoked on this night...even the useless blues to close set one had a nice ring to it
and i can easily list 10 shows from the 90's where they had "it"
5/27/93...and so fourth and so on...i went to all these(except 12/27/90)...you really had to attend or listen consistantly to realize just how consistant the boys could be...the greatest show on earth (not the who )
>The music does ENRICH our lives...but is it a NECESSITY OF life?
absolutely. i completely believe that art in all it's forms is a necessity of life.
Where to begin..where to begin...
Let's take the necessity of life thing.
On this...what I can say is, I hope you guys who believe that this IS a NECESSITY of life never have to experience anything in your OWN lives that would make you feel differently.
Some of us HAVE...and whether you believe it NOW, or not...your perspectives and priorities will, can, and do, change.
Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying here.
Music...art...film and stage acting...these things DO enrich all of our lives...but, as I'm SURE Phil himself would agree...he DOES say this before the Encore of EVERY SHOW...there ARE situations and circumstances in life that DO occur, that DO put things in their proper perspective.
Let's seeeeeee...the family thing...
One of my daughters' (she's 11) sings in an 80 person chorus, in which she is the youngest person by approxiamately 14 years. This chorus performs in our region, and annually travels to such places as Prince Edward Island in Canada, England, Australia, and New Zealand. She, in the WOMB, was hearing The Dead, The Who, The Allman Bros., ELP, Yes, Led Zeppelin, etc. Music IS a BIG part of her life (she's seen the Allman Bros. twice...dancin'..twirlin' to "Blue Sky"..it was awesome for me to see that), but when her life was in jeopardy 7 years ago (see Point # 1 above) due to a medical situation, that music did NOTHING.
Again, it has ENRICHED her life...but as far as PROVIDING for her well being...that simply was, and is, not the case.
As PHIL, I'm SURE, going through what HE went through, also realizes.
Now...Headlight said he wouldn't
be holding his breath waiting for the show that Bucky and I DID like.
Well...let's take a look at a few, just Phil shows now....
04/06/00..Both of us were there...LOVED IT!
04/19/00..Bucky was there..I was not...he LOVED IT!
04/23/00..Bucky was there..I was not...he LOVED IT!
10/16/00..Both of us were there..liked it a LOT!
04/30/01..Both of us were there..LOVED IT!
07/21/01..Both of us were there..LOVED IT!
07/26/01..Bucky was there..I was not..he liked it a LOT!
As for shows neither one of us attended, that we both love...how 'bout:
Just to name a few.
We're NOT the "Grim Reapers'" some of you guys make us out to be.
We, as has been stated, APPRECIATE how high Phil has set "the bar"...we just would like him (and Warren, Jimmy, Rob, and John) to KEEP IT that high.
When he doesn't...it's not the end of the world...but we sure do have the right to critique.
I'm sorry to tell you...but after seeing COUNTLESS "Althea's" in the early 80's, well...that's a song I could do without. The "Truckin'">"China">"Rider" to open the 2nd set on 9/20/90 is STUPENDOUS, with Bruce and Jerry DRIVING...PUSHING each other...ESPECIALLY during the final instrumental in "I Know You Rider".
Now...in that show you mention "Feel Like A Stranger", and "U.S. Blues"...but not the EPIC "Dark Star"...with TWO seperate, distinct MELTDOWNS, AND the "Playin'" reprise.
If I'M coming out of THAT show...THAT'S what I'M talking about.
Look...all we're really saying is, we EXPECT GREATNESS...P&F have PROVEN they are much more capable than The Dead were in the last decade or so of THEIR existence, of DELIVERING, with PASSION, with DRIVE, with VERVE, on a CONSISTENT...NIGHT AFTER NIGHT basis.
That's what we want.
And to be grateful for WHATEVER they play, just doesn't cut it.
>Again, it has ENRICHED her life...but as far as PROVIDING for her well being...that simply was, and is, not the case.
hmm...sure. music doesn't necessarily provide for our PHYSICAL well being, but certainly it is as necessary to our SPIRITUAL/EMOTIONAL well-being as food and shelter are to the body. While the immediacy of the physical often can, especially in situations as you describe key, take precidence, one could certainly argue that maintainence of both the spiritual/emotional and the physical are equally important in life.
Ok...point well taken, Cinderoo.
That is precisely why Bucky and I are such tough critics.
When the music is at its HIGHEST, RICHEST points...what can be more spiritual/emotional than that?
When they fall short of that is when our critiques' are less than glowing.
totally understand that key.
I think somebody hit the nail on the head:
When they do not meet our standards, we are loudest to complain.
When they do meet our expectations, we are loudest to heap praise.
You should see us after a killer show (meaning we had an eargasm) as we sit outside & critique the show almost riff by riff.......
>>>>>Why be satisfied with anything less?
I'll be waiting with anticpation for a show where you and/or Bucky are satisfied. I won't hold
Let's see, out of 17 P&F attended:
Those ones blew me away.
Certain ones, like 10-14-00, 4-19-00 & 12-01-01 had some lackluster 1st sets, but delivered the goods in the end.
The only really lacking show were 7-21-00 (Hartford) & 11-20-01 at Oakdale.
My first, 11-10-99 was well played, but a bit weak in song selection.
12-2-01 was marginal IMHO, not bad, but hardly great.
So, go read my reviews on any of the shows I mentioned as blowing me away.
>Now...in that show you mention "Feel Like A Stranger", and "U.S. Blues"...but not the EPIC "Dark Star"...with TWO seperate, distinct MELTDOWNS, AND the "Playin'" reprise.
key-i never meet a dark star i didn't like
i was not at 9/20/90...my 1 st set which contains pre drumz as well is a sbd, while my second set is a "B" aud...but i'll give it another listen and see if it's as EPIC as the 9/10/91,3/29/90,12/12/90 or 4/1/91 versions i listed above...i'd also like to add 10/31/91 to that list also with an EPIC star
I think its definitely on a par with the 3/29/90 (assisted that night by Branford)...on a par, if not slightly better than the 2nd Branford "Dark Star" of 9/10/91...and on a par with the 4/1/91 (man...that one is lonnnnnng, if I remember correctly).
I think its better than the 12/12/90 "Dark Star".
The 10/31/91 would be better than it is (oh..you're gonna LOVE this!) if Kesey woulda SHUT UP!
I liked 10/31/71 or the 12/31/78 or maybe the 11/25/73....what do you think boys......
I've got one for ya...11/8/70...Portchester, NY.
This was playin' when my son was born 26 years later on 11/8/96.
Goes into "The Main Ten"...
I think 9-20-90 is the best of the Dark Stars from '89 on.
And, I was at 9-10-91 with Branford........
9/10/91 is excellent! Althought I wasn't there, I do enjoy listening to the show. (as you old-timers may say) "For a 90's show" it's HOT!
>if Kesey woulda SHUT UP!
no he didn't...don't go there
yeah mama...of shows i attended from top to bottom 9/10/91 is my fav
2/13/70....is "the" dark star though...right?
right up there with 8/27/72
couple of underrated stars imo 10/26/89 miami and 3/27/69 merced
key your right, listened to 9/20's for the first time in awhile and it could step in the ring with any of 'em
I dunno that I'd say 2/13 is "it" ... gimme a 72 or 74: SPACE jams and tiger jams!!
Bucky and I have been referring to "Dark Star">"That's It For The Other One">"Lovelight" from 2/13/70 as "The Biggie" for over 20 years now!
I'm glad you re-enjoyed 9/20/90!
And Tyler...you do have a point...those "Tigers" from that era are F**KIN' KILLER!!!!!
>>If you don't know me personally, don't send any hate my way. That's uncool.
ain't NO time to hate dude: you're absolutely correct; I know you not. I was SO kidding, although that DID happen to me at the Beacon, for real...next time ya see me in my secret room there, feel free to saunter up & say hey now~
~mi bonga es su bonga~
& RB is right about the journey of the show, despite me getting back here so much post-comment...
love to you all
whoa; guess i shoulda read your hate against me a bit more carefully before my lighthearted response...
harshola, for NO reason, other than you misunderstanding my humor.
have a happy Vibes, as will I, even without your herb~
(one love indeed)
>>>>>If you don't know me personally, don't send any hate my way. That's uncool.
ain't NO time to hate dude: you're absolutely correct;
You know, Jill & I are about as opposite as 2 Deadheads can be, except we both dislike hearing Stella at P&F.......
But you know what?
I like her, & she tolerates me (LOL!).
Really, hopefully she likes me......
She's certainly done her share of showing she cares for me & Mrs B.
That's what LOVE really means.
Not that we have to agree on everything or flame each other; that we can disagree & still like & respect each other & not allow our differences to be a nasty contempt for each other.
Put that in your pipes & smoke it, neo-hippies.
Hey.....I just got a copy of this show on cd from waterhill.....this is a barnburner of a kickass show. But hey bucky.....I can agree to disagree with ya.
you are correct sir
Hand me my old guitar
Pass the whiskey round
Won't you tell everybody you meet that the Candyman's in town