I'm slowly starting to get it, I think. does anyone want to enlighten the congregation???

1. Berkeley, 6.30 - Moon
2. Red Rocks, 7.6 - Mercury
3. Pine Knob, 7.17 - Venus
4. SPAC, 7.22 - Mars

the picture on the circular screen obviously has some significance. I didn't quite get it till I saw the tour poster, which by the time I saw it, was sold out.

clearly, I have some astronomy/astrology to catch up on, can anyone help ???

Luna, Mercury, Venus, Mars...
There was a Sun jam at the Great Woods on the 20th
also.
There will be 2 more...Jupiter and Saturn.

These are the 7 heavenly bodies visible with the
naked eye. They are also connected with the 7
alchemical processes leading to spiritual
purification.

Each step is represented by a heavenly body and a
metal...the process turns lead to gold

1) Calcination >> Lead >> Saturn
2) Dissolution >> Tin >> Jupiter
3) Separation >> Mars >> Iron
4) Conjunction >> Venus >> Copper
5) Putrefaction >> Mercury >> Quicksilver
6) Distillation >> Luna >> Silver
7) Coagulation >> Sol >> Gold

Here is an informative site >>>
http://www.earthspiritcenter.com/articles.html

Phil is definitely taking us on an Oddysey...one
of spiritual enlightenment.


717

That's pretty neat guys. So what does Phil play at the "Tin" show?

boy will it be interesting to try to match this stuff up, hear the different jam themes..

fascinating stuff..DEEP...folks like robert anton wilson and joseph campbell would love this stuff..campbell believed american culture was seriously lacking any true rituals which are rich source of celebration, healing, etc in other cultures..until he found the Dead in the last few years of his life and dubbed them the sole American vehicle of mythology..

Does anyone know when the other planetary events will be taking place or is a random feeling?

This is ALL BULLSHIT!Phil is not the Dead. He should get rid of his southern fried,half ass rockers,and play with some real muscians!

hi troll dj...oops, i forgot its better to ignore you than to let you steer the conversation into the same old shit..now back to ttalking to the adults...

bluemoon, thats a good question....where's jill when we NEED her? maybe the answeres are somewhere in the link provided..

seasonofwhat, thank you for that link...pretty cool..

i thought the 7 special shows were the ones with weir but theres definitely something happening here

Hey maybe dj put it a little to harshly, and maybe dj is a little parochial in her labeling Warren "southern fried" but she does raise an interesting point. Of course Phil and Freinds are not the dead. Nothing is the dead any more. If all the other ones played together, it wouldn't be the dead. The dead are dead, get it ?

Ah, but the Grateful dead mythos ! That's bigger then all the players that were in the dead, bigger then all of us. That we owe to Hunter, in large part, and to Keroac, Cassidy, Thoroeu, Copernicus, and down the line. I for one, am very glad to have the immortal dead repertoire of my youth carried foward so gracefully, and with so much of the intended spirit, by Phil & Friends. The fact that ratdog is also running around allowing the heads to congregate, and enjoy, while hearing a different take on music that each of these original members has a right to call thier own, only makes the scene richer, and me , for one very happy. So be happy too, what the f---k? Sure Warren is not Jerry, but Phil is not Carmen Electra either. It doesn't matter !! Enjoy!

I was wondering what the story was with the planetary jams, thanks peeps, for the insights !!

Okay if you look at the link and the spiritual progress, it does have an order with the lower vibrational prosses to start with Calcination (Saturn) and work its way up Coagulation (the Sun)which would be the spiritual pathway for alchemical transformation. If Phil wanted to do this right he should have played them in its proper order, in regard to all the souls that went to every show so in the end they would have had an enlightening experience. I saw the SPAC show and I would have to admit as being a high flying dancer of light I did find the show a little confusing (but not having a bad time,enjoyed most). Now not everyone felt that way so it did prompt me to find out what was going on. Maybe when its all played and done and we put all the pieces in order and distribute it. It could all be very much of a masterpiece. Untill then play on~~ I'm willing to experience anything on my journey.

seasonofwhat...thanks for the link. it's very interesting and it seem to be posted and the perfect time for me...thanks again and keep on grooving!

Someone more qualified than me please pull in a relationship to the opening if the 7 chacras. BTW, heres a fervent hope that Phil explains his focus when it's all over

Chakra one (root)-- Metal = lead; planet/god =
Saturn; element = earth; this is a world
characterized by depression, heaviness, body,
time, the prima materia, the Nigredo(aka Deadhead).

Chakra two (sacral)-- Metal = tin; planet/god =
Jupiter; element = water; this is a world of
sexuality, creativity, generativity, moving out of
the darkness of the Nigredo.

Chakra three (solar plexus)-- Metal = iron;
planet/god = Mars; element = fire; this is a world
of passion, anger, will-power, ego-identity.

Chakra four (heart)-- Metal = copper; planet/god =
Venus; element = air; this is a world of love,
beauty, imagination (heart as the organ of
imagination), the seat of the soul, Anima Mundi.

Chakra five (throat)-- Metal = mercury; planet/god
= Mercury; element = ether; this is the beginning
of the worlds of spirit, a world of communication,
movement, inspiration.

Chakra six (third eye)-- Metal = silver;
planet/god = Luna (moon); the Queen of alchemy,
the Albedo, vision, virginity, reflection.

Chakra seven (crown)-- Metal = gold; planet/god =
Sol (sun); the King of alchemy, the Rubedo,
spirit, transcendance, eternity.


connection>>>communication>>>http://www.ulster.net/~shady/deadisti.html

Set Your Controls For the Heart of the Sun...

Last night at Jones Beach it looks like Jupiter was getting some attention.

He should get rid of his southern fried,half ass
rockers,and play with some real muscians!


Well thanks for your input.....but if it wasn't for the South and its wonderful musical heritage....this website would have never even existed.....nor the Dead......I am sure Pigpen and Jerry would have agreed.........

Does someone from the Phil organization supply the names for these special "jams" that are on the setlists? How do these get named? I didn't receive any Playbill at the shows I went to that explained this :)

Right on schedule, a Saturn Jam for Satur(n)day!

more 7's
>>>>http://www.otherwonders.com/otherkin/writings/septagram.html
>>>>http://www.byzant.com/symbols/septagram.html

It is finished when 7 are 1...

July 30th Moonday evening, look for the Moon,
Mars and Antares low in the southern sky.

August: Mars is still visible in the southern sky.
The Milky Way is stretching straight overhead.
This band of stars stretches far to the south.
Look for the Summer Triangle (the stars Altair,
Deneb and Vega) in the northern hemisphere.

Saturnday August 4th Full Moon. Venus and
Jupiter, the two brightest planets, are very close
together in the eastern morning sky.
Saturday August 11th the Perseid meteor shower.
Monday August 13th Moon occults Saturn.
Look for Saturn, the Moon, Jupiter and Venus
making a line in east before dawn.
Wednesday August 15th Moon occults Jupiter.
Thursday August 16th Moon conjunct Venus in morning
Look also for Jupiter, and, far to the right,
Saturn - Enjoy!

wow supercool I hope I get to see Perseid Meteor Shower during So Many Roads It is supposed to happen for a period of about 10 days with the middle day most intense keep checking the skies you never know because "when you wish upon a star, it makes no difference where you are..."

Possible answers to your quest.s
Whats with these planetary jams ?Maybe they are trying to expand the music, maybe its magic but most likely its more BS from Phil the great BS artiste since him and his band actually suck so they come up with this planetary BS one step past this Astrology crap to lure in dopes like me so we think that by some planetary miracle of all the heavens combined is Phil and his band are gonna actually play in rythym and melody and the fans would be nice to each other.Phat chance of that happening but please keep sending your money to PhilLeshIncorporated. Or maybe its supposed be some symbolic thing you know the process of turning yourself into a better person you know like all the people serving prison time for selling drugs to support their mindless quest to put money in your pockets lets see if you even help the phans on the oddysey thing I doubt you'll be able to stop counting your money long enough to even read it not to mention I'm sure you have no brain cells from all these planetary jams Come back to Earth.Please.

Thats people selling drugs that thought you bums were superhuman and some mysterious karma was gonna protect them from the highly sophisticated sober feds so instead of making their world into Paradise they are in hell, great job. Anything you want us to do without thinking for ourselves and and just follow your stupid post show commands why don't you tell your (fans)disciples that you almost died because of using drugs not because of a lack of spare organsKeep up the good work>Peace,brother!PhuckenBasshole?!?

FWIW,
When the Dead encored with Dark Star at the Greek in 1984, they did it at the behest of Phil. Had something to do with recent findings on the moon or Mars or something. Some kind of attempt to communicate with the planet Ork or some such thing. Anyway, hes apparently been into this astrology/astronomy thing for a while.

Linda,
Whoa, maybe you saw a lacking show or something but we must be seeing two different bands. In rythm-try bringing your metronome to the next show- the one that measures all the band members shifting rythms TOGETHER- this band is right on time. Melodic??? The scope of this board prohibits an in-depth discussion of melody, however, suffice it to say this is a pretty melodic rock band- not quite Beatles melodic-but way more so than most bands these days.Anyway, is not melody in the ear of the beholder?

Finally- How does Phil, Jerry, anybody else in the Dead or any other popular band incur responsibility for fans misguided fantasies about supernatural protection from the laws of society?
In fact, the Dead strongly urged fans not to engage in illegal activities at their shows. Do you think they needed the bad press? Do you think people who were busted on tour would have been safer doing what they were doing elsewhere?-I doubt it-they are responsible for their actions, and not the band. What is Phil supposed to do-walk around the scene admonishing everyone who is engaging in overtly stupid behavior? Many actions involve risk- risk taking is a personal decision.

If you don't like the band thats o.k.- not up to your standard- but please don't blame Phil for the actions of some risk taking individuals-he's not a preacher-he's a musician.

Anyway. Peace and may the light of true justice and good will shine down on anyone who is wrongfully incarcerated under arcane, draconian federal drug laws (which, BTW, Phil didn't write)

Those were the Skylab photos of Mars Phil had just somehow just obtained from NASA that were shown during that Greek Theatre DS..'twas a nice touch..

Linda, many, many cultures in the history of this planet have used the stars, planets, and rituals to harness powers that we still do not understand. It is Western culture that is out of touch with this long held tradtion. We have had our misguided collective heads in the sand for the most part when it comes to that wisdom(though we've come up with some handy inventions). Anyone who wants a wider view of this and some understanding into what i'm talking about, please read some Joseph Campbell..

enjoy Jerry's BDay everyone with whatever ritual you choose to observe and honor.....Peace

Please explain how the Western World is out of touch with the planet, stars, etc.....The last time I checked there was a astrology section in every newspaper in the West......stars on top of christmas trees........moon and tidal reports for peeps on the coast.....

Linda honey don't get your panty's in a bunch.If you don't like the music or the scene please stay home. and, Please don't spread your cheese in here.

Leo,

See what you started? All that planetary nonsense is nice and fun to think about but now you've brought the true crazies and creepos like lindalightning out of the woodwork.

Linda, please get some help. Most mental illnesses can be held in check. Just take your medicine, please. For the sake of your family and friends, stay on the meds. It's better. Trust me.

>Thats people selling drugs that thought you bums were superhuman and some mysterious karma
was gonna protect them from the highly sophisticated sober feds so instead of making their
world into Paradise they are in hell, great job. Anything you want us to do without thinking for
ourselves and and just follow your stupid post show commands why don't you tell your
(fans)disciples that you almost died because of using drugs not because of a lack of spare
organsKeep up the good work>Peace,brother!PhuckenBasshole?!?


*SMACK...SMACK***

damn Lithium decoder is busted..

can anyone help me here?

I am not sure that Linda really knows what the fuck she is talking about......yada yada yada

Thank you all with the wise words on this subject.

The Camden Saturnday show was the 1st where I was able to see the planet in the circle. And the show was so strong, earthy.

I love you all.

Harmony

Drew: Its true we have lots of planets, stars and the daily horoscope...

but i tnink what Phil is referencing is astrology in an alchemical sense, using the planets, symbols, along with music, to perform some sort of ritual-prayer, raising of power...like the tree worshipping Druids of Scotland...like a shaman...like Tibetian Monks and their sand mandalas..

Joseph Campbell fell in love with The Dead when he was in his later years, over 70 i believe, calling them "the only American myth". you'll have to read him or check out the Bill Moyers interviews to see why. he is a genius, up there with Carl Jung, taking those thoughts even further..

ok, can anyone describe else what they saw in the screens?

Michigan: it was a Queen with a crown that had stars that matched the ones in the sky..she had a staff with an infinity symbol at the end...

SPAC: and exploding castle, lightning laying waste to it..didn't get a great look..

Jones Beach: A number of images, all gold in color..a wheel with braided spokes, maybe a chaos wheel..also a large #4 stretched out with sharp points...

anyone have any ideas about these images or others to add to this?

At Red Rocks there was the symbol for Mercury, stars/planets, an image of an Alchemist/Magickian with wand, and a distillation apparatus.

The '4' that you saw at Jones beach is the symbol for Jupiter.

Alchemy >>> http://www.levity.com/alchemy/

Yes that Joesph Campbell is a real saint.....He is a great interrupter of religon.......but don't forget that we were the first to go to the moon......I was thinking of hitting some shows in Dixie......but I am scared to go now after hearing what is going on with the tour this summer....and I am not talking about the music......but the clueless (as one of my friends called the fans at the Red Rox show) fans who seem not to care....I wish it wasn't so........I really would love to hear Phil and the Brothers...somebody talk me into going......tell me there is still hope.....I have heard some horror stories

SPAC:
Mars, the red planet, casting a lightning bolt down to an exploding tower. the symbol for Mars, a circle with an arrow (exactly like the symbol for male).

what really caught my interest was the tour poster that they were selling at the t-shirt booths. unfortunately, it was sold out, and I didn't make it to another show. what I remember of it was that there was the Sun (from Great Woods) surrounded by what must've been six images, one of which was the Mars image from the SPAC show.

check out http://www.thephilzone.com/philzonepages/friends_stuff/setlists/2001-summer.html

and http://www.ratdog.org/photos/index.html

Whoa!!!!!

Where the hell does the horror story aspect come from. If you have taken a little time to read the posts on this site you will realize that these shows have generally been awesome including for the most part the crowds. Sure there have been some complaints and some bad experiences but note the concern is generally that the scene could possibly degenerate to what is perceived as really bad past scenes not that the current scene is all that bad.

There have always been clueless fans at all shows whether they be Dead shows from the late sixties or any era or any show by any band for that matter. The shows I have attended on this tour have had exceptionally kind crowds for the most part, if you have enough understanding and tolerance to relate to a variety of different types of people of different ages with different preferences in their way to mentally/substance-wise prepare for the show.

To your friend who said the crowd at Red Rocks was clueless, I would suggest that is was your friend who perhaps was clueless. I went to both shows and they were both superior shows with outstanding crowds. So good in fact that Phil was moved to say in his donor speech that RR was the absolute best outdoor venue in the USA and that he would play for us folks anywhere, anytime.

Anyway, if you wanted/needed encouragement to go to the shows, this is the best I can do. If you really love the music and go to enjoy the music, you should have no problem with any of the extraneous bullsheet that surrounds any show, If you are looking for an excuse to not go than you can certainly find several thousand of them that will work for you.

Peace, we miss you Jerry. Thank goodness we have Phil and the boys to keep the spirit of Grateful Dead music alive.

Maybe my friend is a clueless.....I don't know.....I was only asking for Os...thanks for yours.....I feel a little better about the scene now.....i last saw Phil in Orlando and had a wonderful time.....the crowd was way mellow.....I am like that myself.....and I can tolerate many different types of people......but I really don't dig....Cops beating the shit out of peeps with bats......that to me is not a good time....and that is one of the horror stories I heard.......he is another example that someone posted on another site earlier this week....

Girls fighting like it was a daily trend.
A guy dumping an entire half gallon on a Park officers truck when
asked to put it away, then doing a dance around the officer and the
truck.
Countless people screaming at cops for getting tickets for loose dogs.
Everybody seems to have a pitbull.
A crazy guy with a four foot piece of steel rebar swinging it one
second, using it as a cain the next.
A kid peeing on the back of my legs(This one didnt end up so well for
him)
A guy who proceeded to walk through the crowd flipping everybody
off.Then telling everybody to get @#%$.
People so blown out on H they couldnt stop puking. Became a regular
sight.
Campgrounds having to bring in the state police because people
refused to pay for their sight. Happened three times in seven days.
Kids begging for shoes.
Vendors refusing to shut down, almost causing riots a couple of
times.
Kids trading pups for drugs.
I could go on and on, but heres some others.

I don't really dig that kind of scence either and to me if I drove a considerable distance to see music....I wouldn't want to hang with this kind of crowd.....peeps trading puppies for drugs, WTF!

Dude......trust me I am GLAD that you posted and let me know that GOOD TIMES are still rolling.....I was at no way trying to down the Phil tourjust looking for another view...and as far as an excuse to talk my self out of not going......I now cannot think of to many, u dig?

Drew, what site did you get the off of?

send me a email, Paul

Sounds like your telling the truth and thinking for yourself we better circle the wagons and viciously attack you(not your issue) so we can scare you off. If you don;t think the same thing as us you must be a homocidal maniac. Try to find other things to do that are fun besides the dead. things that easier and funner and cheaper.

That is quite a load of bad vibes listed there. I can't argue whether they might or might not be true as I apparently wasn't at any of the sites to witness them. It does sound to me like most of these stories might come from the small element of the crowd that apparently thinks being a freak/hippie/free-thinker or whatever, means that they are free to be disrespectful of everything and do whatever they want in spite of its effect on others.

I would say again that these types of people have always been around in one form or another and unfortunately this is a scene they can use for their own benefit mainly because so many of the attendees at these events are real music fans and kind people and perhaps more willing than we should be to put up with their crap. While I don't agree with some others who have advocated beating some of these people up to teach them a lesson, I do agree with the same people who feel the answer is to take some sort of action like passing out garbage bags, pointing out gate-crashers or trying to explain another way to look at the scene and more appropriate behavior. We may get through to the individuals who might have any chance of understanding and the others are probably hopeless anyway.

I am glad I could help you and I certainly didn't mean to put anybody down in doing so ie:saying your friend may have been clueless. I can only say that I am often so focused on the music that I might miss some of the other stuff. I am also not really attending these events for the lot scene which perhaps removes me from many of these happenings.

My take on the police stuff if that it is generally your own fault if you have run-ins with the police. In my experience, if you are cool and don't challenge them and don't do things they are paid to prevent right in their face you will probably be okay. I admit there are probably some exceptions to this rule from what I have read about certain venues but that would seem to be readily available information so that any intelligent human being would take steps to avoid confrontation even more carefully in those environments.

The worst thing any of the true lovers of the music could do would be to allow a small minority of individuals who are there for the wrong reasons to spoil the beauty of our scene.

Enough soapbox stuff, I have to get some work done.

Thanks for your insight Marty.....do you live in CO...I used to live in Ft. Collins....nice view out there......

Kool Kat I like the way you can keep focused on the good stuff I hope you always can.

Hi Drew,

Yes, I live in Littleton and have for about 20+ years. Originally from NY so I have a somewhat unique point of view on some of this east/west stuff on other threads.

My first 50 or so Dead shows were in the east, primarily NY metro from 1969 through about 1976. My next however many shows, I don't count but certainly well over 100 were from Colorado west to the coast and I can honestly say I have seen great shows everywhere and not so good shows everywhere.

I love Red Rocks and we perhaps get a little spoiled having it right here. When I made a last minute decision to get on a plane this year for the Alpine and Deer Creek shows, It was a great thing for me. The shows were both outstanding and I liked both arenas okay for different reasons. It just goes to show you, even an old fart like myself can learn new ways to look at things by keeping an open mind and a sense of adventure.

By the way, a friend of mine who has been on tour most of the summer with Panic and Phil and is a long time veteran of many Dead shows actually in all seriousness said to me last night that the Alpine Phil show was very likely the absolute best musical show he has ever seen in his life. I wasn't willing to go that far because I liked the Red Rocks show on Saturday as much and certainly could describe at least ten Dead shows, if I only could remember where or when, the same way but thats why this music is so great. There is always the chance on any given night you will get one of those shows but it will certainly be different and unique form others of the same inspirational quality.

I can't really believe how much I am rambling today. It feels like I was at a show last night even though my personal 4 show run ended in Deer Creek. Must have been some hellacious shows to still be so fresh and important in my mind.

Cool.......I just read some nice reviews of the Phil Shows......good peeps....sorry if I sounded like I was trying to generalize the overall scene because of a few mishaps.....It just seemed like I heard from more than one and on more than one occasion......I am glad to hear things are truckin along.....and when I heard about the puppies for drugs....I guess I just about freaked out....I just wanted to see if this was an overall feeling from others....GLAD TO SEE THAT IT IS NOT........and for the record every show you go to you are going to have the bad element......I guess you just have to stay focoused on what is important.....THE MUSIC! I hope you friend had a good time with Phil and The Panic......Panic tours has the bad element also...but I keep going to them.....and BTW my friend is clueless (and I am saying this jokingly, I love the guy and he is a music lover).....but he is a bit spun....Did your friend make it to the Oak Mtn. Panic shows, if so he saw some killer shit.....Saturday night was the best Panic show I have ever seen in my life.....The also busted out a first time ever THe Harder They Come on Friday......Take Care and Only Love Can Phil......

PS.. Jean-Pierre.....I am coming to kill you! The Maniac....

Leo,

Did the tour poster look anything like the bottom
image on this page
>>>http://66.68.149.109/starseed.html<<<
??

This is the Triangle of Divine Harmony...

Hey folks,
Iv'e gone to many shows and seen many things. Did you ever hear the saying "you attract your liking". The kind of person you are, usally is going to reflect in the people you hang with. There are more than a bunch of realy cool, funny and mellow loving people out there. Stay away from the trash and dont feed into there act, eventually they'll get the message and move on. The only thing we can do for them is teach the kids by example, and who wants to get on the bus will.
Just keep smiling and dance on~~~Peace

[I'm willing to experience anything on my journey.]


Even the Truth?

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." - Jesus

Thisisthe, that last link wouldn't work for me...I checked the link to those Ratdog pictures and you can see the symbol at Great Woods, Mass was a large Red Planet, glowing...Mars?

Petra...your man was very familiar with alchemy...remember water into wine? other feats as well. he unterstood all about harnessing powers to attain spiritual awakening...we can use the natural powers so obvious all around us (or do you think Phil is a filthy pagan?) as well as prayer..open the gate to alchemy and check it out, its exactly what that quote is talking about...

Ok, so we have 5 symols described here so far out of the 7...anyone piecing any of this 2gether? Jill you back yet?

I think it will be fascinating to find out the exact symbols from these shows and listen to the music played and see if there's any correlation..

I know in the 3 Special Shows i saw there were distinctly different jams than at other Phil shows i've attended...the opening set jams were one piece, one theme, almost a song unlike the usual Phil opening set jam that explores a number of themes...

like at jones Beach for instance, does anyone remember that the jam to start the 2nd set was a single theme? SPAC, too, i believe, if memory serves correctly...and Michigan...

And the Saturn Jam at Camden seemed to have one particular theme...the "Floyd-ish" feel...

Chakra one (root)-- Metal = lead; planet/god =
Saturn; element = earth; this is a world
characterized by depression, heaviness, body,
time, the prima materia, the Nigredo(aka Deadhead).

The theme of the show seems to be set around that.
It was quite a dark show. Especially the Dark Star->Days->Dark Star...

[Petra...your man was very familiar with alchemy...remember water into wine? other feats as
well. he unterstood all about harnessing powers to attain spiritual awakening.]

Jesus 'harnassed' power by submitting himself to God, and through that submission, he was filled with the Holy Spirit. That's where his power came from, not from some mystical natural forces.
Bottom line: I do not deny that there is power out there to be harnassed through 'nature', 'spirit guides', etc. It's just that the true source of those powers is not as innocent or natural as you'd like to think it is.
"Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." - John, Disciple of Jesus.

Hmmmm...well...I went with my people, following Moses out of bondage in Egypt. I don't really remember this...but my spirit was there. And their spirits are now here with the remainder of us.

And in 1945, in the name of Jesus, 6 million of my people were allowed to be murdered (the Pope did NOT speak against this)...an abuse of a name, but still...lets leave religion out of this and talk about 7 symbols...

Sorry...I'm obviously senstive about that...I don't like it when people tell me I can't voice my opinion, so it's not fair that I should get enflamed when others do...I just don't agree that those "powers" are definately "bad" and that those that people gain in the name of Jesus are definately "good"

OK...I'm done...sorry if I overreacted.

Don't sweat it, KrazyKat.

It bothered me too.

This is an odd thread. Not sure I like it mostly because it makes absolutely no sense to me and I went to a bunch of shows.

yes, this is an odd thread. rightfully so, it's an odd subject (well, it's not so odd to some of us, but...)

here's what I've put together so far, excuse me if this is a bit simplistic.

Phil and Friends played seven "special" shows on this tour. each show was designated by a titled thematic jam, and a corresponding visual image on the stage. these images symbolize the alchemical process of turning lead into gold.

in turn, the alchemical process' have been related to a spiritual journey. the (psycological) process in which one sheds "ego" and becomes a conscious piece of the universe.

now, here's the trick... don't get hung up on trivial BS. it's not about a traditional religion. it's not about some mystical crap. it's all about you, how you feel, how you feel about your place in the cosmos. each of us holds the key, Phil is just trying to remind us of that, so we can all be together... with the music.

just a thought.

right on leo...I like that last bit

[And in 1945, in the name of Jesus, 6 million of my people were allowed to be
murdered (the Pope did NOT speak against this)...]

What a bunch of BS.
Sorry, but they were murdered in the name of Nazi insanity with their 'Master Race' theology. Hitler hated true Christians too. I guess if the Pope said something, they wouldn't have been executed? Hitler would've just said "Damn! the Pope is against me exterminating the Jews. I guess I better stop."
You're bitterness is sorely misplaced.

Anyhow, The Pope has NOTHING to do with true Christianity. Catholicism is a blend of Christianity without the Holy Spirit & Roman Paganism.
True Christianity is a relationship with Jesus, not a religion.
Any true Christian understands that the Jews are the true chosen people of God & that they've only been adopted into Abraham's seed through Jesus's sacrivice to atone for our sins.

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem." - Jesus

"Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is monotheistic can believe anything--just give him time to rationalize it"
-Robert A. Heinlein

I say we all go back to Sun worship......I mean it makes great sense.....The Sun is always there..comes up in the morning...goes down at night......very powerful....If you stare at it your eyes will be damaged.....it grows our food...provides warmth......we all revolve around it.....makes for some very beautiful sunrises and sunsets.....you can get a nice tan....which makes alot of white people look a hell of alot better.....Of course some asshole would ask "Well who created the Sun".....nosense it doesn't matter just be happy it is there.....cause if it wasn't we would all be fucked........World Peace thru Sun Worship.....not a bad idea......We could get rid of the idea that God has a "Chosen" group of people, starting wars in the name of God, annoying people knocking on your door to trying to save you from enternal damnation, rock hurling in the name of Allah, car bombs, no more of the Christian right, .......so what do you think? And one more thing this is a very tounge and cheek message....so don't take offense....have fun and I am going to the beach and catch some rays.....

PS Even a blind man knows when the sun is shining!
It's only real if you believe!

You're right about Hitler, and I know that he didn't like true Christians, either...I guess a couple of his lamp shades were made of Jewish/Christian skin hybrids...and I know how Christians see Jews as chosen people and then see us as damned to the fire and brimstone of hell because we don't except Jesus as the end all be all of G-d through man.

What I was saying is, the "powers" that arise from Christianity are not always so "natural" and "innocent" as they may seem, either...Hmmm...inquisition...the crusades...harboring Nazi fugitives for monetary and political gain...shall I go on? Oh, and don't try to tell me that the POPE is extricable from the face of Christianity. True Christians helped Jews hide...I feel this way, and I'm sure you do, too...however, it is still in Christ's name that ALL of these things happened.

and no, I don't think Hitler would have listened to the Pope...but in my mind it is an unignorable crime on the part of the papacy to say nothing, and, in fact, to harbor Nazi fugitives after the war. America is guilty of the first part of this crime, as well. Probably the second, too.

My bitterness cannot be misplaced...I feel it where it comes...please do not tell me it is wrong. I conceded, and do again, that I should not become upset when hearing another's opinion...However, I don't think religion aids or adds to a discussion of artistic endeavors, especially by a band that takes religion, imo, with a grain of salt. Now spirituality...that's another story...for christianity, too...actually, except for a relatively few people (and it seems you are one of the few) I'd say there is very little spirit left in christianity. Man, I need to stop...maybe we need a new folder for this.

Maudib...nice quote!

Beach on the brain, eh Drew?! Worship the SunGod! I like that...

BTW, just to be fair...I don't at all like how we "chosen people" are treating the Palestinians...although that is a two way street.

Yo Petra, I think I know you...Varsity Pizza? Do I have the right guy?

leo...good summation...this is fascinating stuff...i can't wait to hear the 7 shows and check out how the jams were affected..

If you study the Alchemical process just laid out (the subject of this discussion) you'll find the highest level (gold) is coming from a place where we lose ourselves in the creative process, we shut up for once, and let something higher flow through us...

possible to have a seperate discussion for good vs. bad christian stuff?

Petra if you really believe in your spirituality, you might try respecting the beliefs of others for starters...i've read the bible 2x...the koran, book of the dead, etc....

...have you even bothered to read even a little about alchemy before you entered this discussion? If not why are you discussing Jesus here under this topic w/o knowing anything about it?

Check out alchemy and what phil is doing related to that and then maybe we can discuss the connection between religion and alchemy which is a right on discussion, if you can see the link....its there if you really look..

as far as the alchemy goes.......why turn lead into gold, what about lead into dank nugs.....an ounce of those are worth more than gold nowadays!

This is very interesting stuff to me. Phil gave us the clues and we are trying to figure out what the heck it all might mean or just having fun speculating for the sake of mental stimulation which is always a very good thing.

In case you haven't noticed, the latest rumour section of the Phil Zone semi-promises to shed some light on what he perhaps had in mind in the coming weeks which should be extremely interesting to compare with the ideas brought forward here.

Hey, btw, sorry about getting all enflamed everyone...I try not to engage too much in argumentative behavior, but for some reason I had to respond...I can't help it with that stuff for some silly reason.

To be honest, I don't think another discussion would be worth it...I would participate, but I think that folder would be UGLY

Yes, we should avoid threads devoted to religion or politics...They're generally not very productive...

Totally understandable to me. It is pretty discouraging to be having a stimulating discussion and an open forum for interesting ideas just to be disrupted by someone preaching religeous dogmas without bothering to relate them to the discussion in any way.

I will admit that I am somewhat prujudiced by my lack of appreciation for organized religeon although as somebody pointed out above that has nothing to do with what I consider to be my fairly high level of spirituality. I think it is a much harder and more ultimately rewarding road to be open minded about all spiritual ideas and take from them what you can, than to be controlled or locked into somebody elses or some groups predefined way of seeing the universe.

It was me who said that about not being particularly religious, but spiritual (at least I was one of the people)...and I agree...I think religion is spirituality handed to you in plasti-wrap...

shit...sorry, we're talking about it...

I think that these 7 shows are great...on many levels...it gives us poor bastards stuck here at work something to think about, type, and discuss(argue). And for the tour rats, I think it may help take the edge off of just going to show after show and getting sucked into the whole thing and losing your direction...I think it provides a wonderful focus...and imo, becoming enlightened is as much about thinking in new ways as it is about thinking the "right" ways...so I think the tour rats who were paying attention are very fortunate beyond the usual "man, I sure wish I'd done the whole tour"

[Petra if you really believe in your spirituality, you might try respecting the beliefs of
others for starters...i've read the bible 2x.]

I respect their right to believe whatever they want, but I stand for the truth. You may call it my opinion, but if you would ask Jesus to come into your life and receive him as savior, you might just have the same conviction that I do to know Jesus is the truth & the way, that nobody comes to God except through him.
All we all need to do is simply pray "God, or Higher Power, Great Spirit, show us the truth and show us where we are deceived". There, I prayed it and meant it. Can you?
After all, are we only interested in defending our prideful opinions, or do we want the truth even if it offends our natural minds?

"Do you suppose I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division...." - Jesus

SJF: You can read the Bible 100 times, but without the Holy Spirit in you to bring understanding & life to those words, they're lifeless.

"the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned."
"Brothers & Sisters, think of who you were when you were called: Not many wise by human standards, not many influencial, not many of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things..."
"Professing to become wise, they became fools"
"God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believed." - The Apostle Paul

How sad for you not to understand that the person who thinks they know the absolute truth and the answers to the unanswerable is the person who really has the least knowledge of all.

I'll accept that you believe fully and have every right to believe fully in what is right for you, but as soon as you try to tell others that yours is the only way, you lose all credibility as you have no open mind to other ideas and therefore no means to evaluate them.

I also am sorry, I agree that this is not the place for religeous discussions but it is hard to ignore the ignorant who hide behind dogma and other peoples ideas without being able to express or even have their own ideas much less listen to others.

......the word religon itself comes from a Greek root which means......the source.....so basically saying that you are spiritaul and not religous doesn't make a lot of sense.......

Now I am going back to my sun worship on the beach.....lots of hotties dressed half naked....yummy.......that is what I call a place of worship.......

JC Lover...I don't think there is any question that you mean what you say, believe deeply in Jesus and God and the values that they put forth...I think people (at least I) think that you are being pushy about something that they feel strongly differently about than you...I feel strongly differently about this than you...

and I put forth my prayer...

help me, nature...higher power, to find the way that is mine...

I don't need Jesus to form a particularly strong communion with TPTB in this beautiful universe we traverse...He just saw very clearly and made certain things easier to see...just like Moses before him...just like lots of people.

Thanks for lightening us up Drew, we needed it at least I did.

And to take your point, I am religeous about many things in life just not organized religeon.

hmm...good point...to clarify, I meant I'm not religious in terms of I don't subscribe to any one organized religion...what Marty said...

enjoy that sun god and the godesses' bodies that it is warming, beach boy! LOL! Have fun...wish I was there...

Petra, to pretend that you have felt a Holy Spirit and noone else has is narrow and extremely ionsulting and as was said leaves you with 0 credability...

again, what do you think of alchemy? why do you push your agenda in a discussion that has nothing to do with it?

please create another discussion about the Jman or somehow read a little about alchemy so you are able to discuss this...

ps: noone is reading those quotes..

>ps: noone is reading those quotes..

LOL!

I tried, but then there were too many.

I just whipped out my handydandy Bible I swiped from a Motel 6 and started reading instead..

LOL!

And on the seventh day he rested, seven special shows, seven steps of Alchemy, seventh son of the seventh son, The Magnificent Seven .........

Gee maybe all of this stuff is somehow related in some kind of a grand kharmic scene based on the number 7.

I know Mickey Mantle and John Elway were also number 7's so it must mean something important.

Actually I am not at the beach just wishing...I do live at the beach, but will have to wait until I get off work......however I like to think about the hotties at the beach......white bikini, shower off before they go into the bar....nice!

As far as alchemy goes......has anyone tried the lead to dank nugs.....
Ain't trying to preach...but... this is a discussion board sometimes discussions take a turn....let it run its natural course......

{I also am sorry, I agree that this is not the place for religeous discussions]

This discussion began as a religious discussion

"He who is not for me is against me" - Jesus

Someday, you'll understand that I'm doing this out of love & caring for you all. I just hope it's not after it's too late.
Jesus didn't kiss the asses of the people who disagreed with his teaching. He stood his ground, was spit on, beaten and executed. Two thousand years later, it's still the same.
And let's get one thing straight. Jesus was either what he claimed to be: God come to earth as a man, or he was a raving lunatic. No in between. None of this 'great moral teacher' stuff.
If you or I claimed to be God in the flesh, we'd either be believed or put in a straight jacket. The same goes for me and any born again believer. Either the Living God has come to live inside all who receive his gift of forgiveness through Jesus or we're insane. I'm willing to bet eternity on Jesus being the only way. Are you all willing to bet Jesus and I are insane?

>>"If you or I claimed to be God in the flesh, we'd either be believed or put in a straight jacket. "

No we'd investigate your life to find out how you were lying, for the Lord said to watch out for false prophets.


Yo Petra, your methods need help. Jesus was all about love and compassion and that seems to be lacking from your posts. You came here to start something wih people who post. That's not Jesus' way. If you're interested in doing the Lord's work, I suggest feeding the poor, etc. Work where there is a tangible benefit, as opposed to being the curmudgeon who turns people off from the message of the Master. That's Satan's work. Keep it up and you'll be working for him.

Just a suggestion, in all humility...

PS - Sorry, Zoners, for responding to this, but you knew I couldn't resist

By the way - your comments on Catholic religion is interesting. Jesus didn't turn to John the Baptist and say "Upon this rock I shall build my church."

dude i tried..you don't just listen, just keep on talking...too bad..

talk to me bout alchemy, otherwise, we are in different discussions Jesusdude...again, you are very rude to say "one day we will see"..don't fall off that high horse..

Jesus is insane? cmon dude, that makes no sense...whew...just listen to the 7 shows and you'll understand..I'm willing to bet eternity that We Are ALL GOD...that's what alchemy is all about...listen and interact and you'll see its all the same thing, not one way only...someday you'll understand..if you listen (to what the flower people say)...shhhh listen...

just go to the alchemy link...the truth is THERE and nowhere else...LOL

[Yo Petra, your methods need help. Jesus was all about love and compassion and that
seems to be lacking from your posts. You came here to start something wih people who
post. That's not Jesus' way.]

Is that the Jesus who went into the Temple and turned over the moneychangers tables?
The same Jesus who told the woman caught in adultery to "Go and sin no more"? All everyone wants to remember is the part about not casting stones.
The same Jesus who said "I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother."?
The same Jesus who said "I have come to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it was already kindled."?

He was loving, compassionate and giving. But also blunt and quite frank. So are his followers, hopefully. You don't know me or the things I do outside of this site. I wouldn't tell you anyways because I do them unto the Lord, not unto men, I don't want men's praise.
As one Christian Brother I met through this site told me, it's hard for people to know the attitude, love, and personality you write these words with. If you knew me personally and I spent months or years building a relationship before God opened a door for me to speak, you'd know I meant what I say in love and for your well being.
But I will not compromise the truth to make anyone happy. Sometimes, we have to say things that people don't want to hear for their own good. That goes for everything in life, not just spirituality.

In response to the "On this rock comment", Redneck, it is my understanding that Jesus is not referring directly to Peter, but to the revelation that Peter had just made, "You are the Christ (Messiah) the son of the Living God". In other words, Jesus would build his church on this foundational truth. Not on a man the Catholic Church, not founded for 300 more years, would retroactively make the first 'Pope'.

Wow, I checked out this thread to learn something new and by the end its the same old rhetoric I heard for 8+ years of my life.

I can speak from experience, being "born again" means very little, if anything. I had a roommate in college who was "born again" and probably the most evil person I've had to tolerate. He'd put his bible quotes on the wall, lecture me after I made love with my girlfriend, and nearly stone me for well... getting stoned now and then. I've heard all this judgement nonsense, and how "one day, I'll see" but to me, thats just talk from someone who doesn't care to learn about me and what I choose to believe or not.

I can say this, I will never find god(s) in a book written thousands of years ago that's been through numerous translations and edits. God is not some vengeful, nit-picking man in the sky, god is not even a man, woman or any other anthropomorphization we try to come up with. Look around you, this world is going crazy, and part of the problem is these religious types beating people over the head with their intolerance. And the same shit has been happening for thousands of years! How can anyone believe that in a pluralistic, heterogeneous society there is only one way to attain salvation, truth, beauty, or whateveryoucallit? I would never approach someone and have the audacity to tell them that I am right, and that they better change, or one day "they'll see." Isn't that what the nazis did??

Read Matthew 7, "Judge not lest he shall be judged". Just don't dare come here and say that you have got all the answers. The dead-head/philzone community, while it does have its bad apples like any other group, still has way more soul and spirit than any organized religion, simply because it is NOT an organized religion.

_____


"There is no god. If there is a God may he strike me dead.....

see I'm still here"
---George Carlin

The Triangle of Divine Harmony
>>http://home.austin.rr.com/lengthwise/starseed.html


The lower 8 sephiroth:

Malkuth(Kingdom) > the Earth

Hod(Glory) > Mercury

Netzach(Victory) > Venus

Yesod(Foundation) > Luna

Geburah(Power) > Mars

Chessed(Mercy) > Jupiter

Tiphereth(Beauty) > the Sun

~~~Da'ath(Knowledge) > Saturn~~

the Supernal Triad(Holy Trinity):

Binah(Wisdom) > Neptune

Chockmah(Understanding) > Uranus

Kether(Crown) > Pluto(AUM)


Kabbalah represents the manifestation of the One
into the All.
>>>http://www.byzant.com/kabbalah/treeoflife.html
>>>http://www.inner.org/sefirot/sefirot.htm


Alchemy is based on Kabbalah
>>>http://www.hermetic.com/stavish/essays/kabbalah-hermetic.html


The 7 stages of Alchemy represent the movement of
a person through the lower Sephiroth in
preparation for the crossing of Da'ath to the
Supernal Triad above...

ps. Yehoshua studied the Kabbalah

thisisthe...thank you very much for your focus..you rock

question: will we let Petra turn this into the Jeses discussion we have heard all our lives? Unless he wants to talk about alchemy i say we ignore the Jesus crap. just scrool by..it will go NOWHERE..and it will ruin this conversation..

Petra you are extremely rude, like someone who barges in on a conversation and refuses to listen, just keeps talking...unbelieveably narrow...like your way or the highway...the irony, i'll repeat it, is that it is all the same and there is connection between alchemy and Jesus, but you clearly don't want to learn anything new..again, have you read about alchemy?

please start another discussion where it makes sense to babble on about Jesus..or save it for YOUR church not THIS one..at least have the courtesy to start your own discussion...

again, i suggest we ignore the Jesus crap and move on...just a suggestion, we've been through this over and over long ago in the Zone...

{Jerry}...i miss you brother

>Someday, you'll understand that I'm doing this out of love & caring for you all. I just hope it's not after it's too late.

Now is that necessary...I feel bad enough if I feed my dog to late at night, let alone because some random stranger is "loving and caring" for me hopefully "before it is too late." My mom is doing just fine loving and caring for me. Don't worry so much. You can bask in the warm glow of heaven while I dodge flames in hell.

Look, I'm sorry, I have to say this, but I'll have some milk and cookies ready when you arrive knocking on my door beating on your bible...I'm Jewish, I like that I'm Jewish. I like a lot of Christians, but to be honest with you, the more you insult my sensibilities like this the more I become against YOU and not Jesus...like I said before I think a lot of the things he said were great and we could all do better to live by some of his lessons. I don't think that he would at ALL enjoy they way his teachings have been warped and raped through time. Please stop.

I think I'll follow Irisguy's advice.

Missin' you Cap'n...Thanks for all the insight!

Discussion for you.....No Discussion for you...Discussion for you.......Discussion for you......No Discussion for you......wow someone sounds like the Discussion Nazi........


If you believed in nothing.....what would you agrue about? Beginner's mind, Beginner's mind!

It's only real if you believe.......

>Jesus was either what he claimed to be: God come to earth as a man, or he was a raving lunatic. No in between.

There is MOST DEFINATELY an in between. He was it. He was a middle road man. Rational thought is only one way to see the world. If you suspend that (which I think Jesus and his disciples did) anything can go. Plus, in Judaism, G-d is in everything...it is all pervasive...so in a way it's not that odd that he said that. Now he meant it to a greater extreme, saying that he is the son of G-d...well, he felt the Holy Spirit to a degree (I believe) that most of us can't imagine. He also had a lot suggesting that he was, considering all of the stories of his upbrining and the immaculate conception, etc. I don't think the lines are drawn so clearly as you suggest...

>Are you all willing to bet Jesus and I are insane?

Did you really just ask that? Are you willing to bet that I consider the two of you on the same level?..we've only known each other a couple of days...I think we're moving too fast.

I'm gonna take back what I said about ignoring JC because quite honestly I'm enjoying this discussion...and I agree with Drew...let it take it's natural course.

Drew...I just read your post retro-actively...I hope I'm not that discussion Nazi...I really do. I apologize if I've seemed that way...

>>...I think we're moving too fast.

Ha Ha! "I'm just not ready for that level of commitment yet..."

No.......really I don't think anyone is a discussion nazi......I was only trying to make a point that this is a discussion board......we should have a right to speak our minds......even if we don't agree or like what someone has to say they do have a right to post what they believe in and think........I know this whole thread started out as a discussion on Alchemy and it's powers.....but that to me sounds like some sort of spiritual quest.....hence someone else's spiritual quest should be tolerated...even if me or you don't believe in what is being discussed.....I myself have found a great deal of good from all different kinds of religons...organized and unorganized.....you can find good in all of it....I mean for example how many hospitals are funded by religous groups...how many schools, missionary groups, homeless shelters, support groups, the list goes on and on.....you got to take the good with the bad........

I took of my shirt and tried to wash off some of that......

"Atheism is a non-prophet organization"

"Each of us serves the temple within"

My body is my temple, though, I do occasionally
worship at the shrine of another?! Shine on me!
all ears

You know Petra-
I always thought it was stange that God 'tricked' most of the world into 'false' religions. WHy did ne create all those Hindus, Buddists, Musliums etc.. (which far outweigh the # of Cristians in the world) if Hes only gonna let them burn in Hell? Ever think about that?

I believe in God. But I also believe that he gave us brains so we can figure stuff out. Did Jesus actually rise from the dead? Im not so sure. But if you follow his teachings, does it make a difference?

God is inside you- not in a book.

And more importantly- I'll be seeing God this weekend- been 6 years since Jerry died, and Im gonna trip my face off and listen to his music. Closest you can get to God in this lifetime, IMO

Anyone else planning anything special?

"History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it."
-Robert A. Heinlein

I'm gonna go play music in Waynesboro, VA...That's how I most readily commune with Nature and the Powers that Be...

Petra, you've taken a lot of flaq in here...I do have to say one thing...I wish you would present the ideas in a way that isn't so pushy. I think, like Drew said, that there are good things to be drawn from organized religions...I just don't like to participate...and like I said, I think Jesus said some wonderful things...I wish you would present them rather than push them.

Maudib...LMFAO!

Religion is the opiate of the people.


- Karl Marx


Pass on the opium, give me a good ole bowl of agnosticism.

ah yes, religion, the opiate of the masses. there is no god except for you. or as crowley would say, "do what thou will, and that shall be the whole of the law!" 99% of what was attributed to christ was actually written down 40-80 years after he died, imagine how long these people had to come up with a good story. jesus is myth. christianity is the religion of paul and constantine. as for me, give me paganism, bhudda, theosophy, joseph campbell, alan watts..etc. as for magick, hunter said it best.."mason was a good man, we bricked him in the wall.....if you get confused listen to the music play."!!!!!!!!

what's that Hunter quote refer to, Ajohnson?

Most of you probably don't know, Petra had a Jesus discussion all to himself on the old board..

so now we're talking about the same things that went on in Petras last discussion..SOS

1. who controls a discussion-censorship
2. the overall validity of religion

sorry, but to me its an attempt to sidetrack the original discussion and anywhere it may have gone...destroyed it...happy, Petra?

its like me barging into Petras church and demanding that alchemy is the Only Way and forcing everyone to talk only about what i'd like to talk about...so who is the discussion nazi?

You could easily integrate a religious comparative discussion with Alchemy thats one thing that would be fascinating..but to barge into a discussion and keep insisting that you have THE Answer without listening to others is basically taking over the conversation...Alchemy and Christianity in their true forms have much, much in common...

i'd love to have some back and forth on that and not about Christianity being a valid religion..its a whole other subject..

you could even point out comparative weaknesses-strengths of alchemy as opposed to Christianity...thats a discussion, not just preaching and without listening...just my opinion..

btw, a comparative discussion between Alchemcy and Buddhism or Native American spirituality would also make a great discussion!

i am expecting the Michigan shn's in the mail soon and would like to trade anyone for CD's of any of the other 7 shows....i am expecting a few other summer shows soon also...lets get those 7 shows circulating!!

Actually, an over-all comparative discussion of religion can be good...but it's dangerous...very very dangerous ground...Who is it that said about religions: We are all climbing the same mountain, we just take different paths...I like that...I pretty much live by that.

Mother Superior calls all the nuns together and says "I must tell you
something; We have a case of Gonorrhea!"

A nun in the back says.................

"Thank God. I'm so tired of Zinfandel."


PS.....Still going to hell in a bucket........

put your hand out, Drew...*SMACK* LOL!

That's pretty funny...

Most of you probably don't know, Petra had a Jesus discussion all to himself on the old board..

so now we're talking about the same things that went on in Petras last discussion..SOS


Actually to tell you the truth I don't even read the dudes post.....people who refer to themselves as JC lovers on the internet scare me....I just ignnore them.......even though I respect his right to post what he has to say.....and I respect his faith in what he believes....the dude does get alot of scorn on this thread and I got to respect a guy who can take the heat and stand his ground....I mean when I walk out of the bar at night shitfaced and one of those street preachers is out preaching the gospel and in my face..I just keep walking.....and I don't really give a damn if the guy is condemning me to eternal damnation just because I like a little drinky drink and chase some skirt........You don't have to listen to religous nuts....they only think they have the answer....that's it, but they do make up the spiritual landscape of the world..as crazy as some of them are....and its not just Christians.....there are alot of other crazies out there.....so at least give them the respect that they deserve even if you don't agree with em........follow the path of least resistance........and remember world peace through constant dancing.

PS Never trust a prankster! Turning lead into dank nugs............oh shit now I am the discussion nazi.......

creativity is an alchemical process that opens up pathways to a whole new way of understanding the world around you. music, being a creative process, certainly would be included in that. and whether you playing or painting or writing for zoroaster, buddah, isis, osiris, aiwass, the chair in the neigbors living room, jesus(the dishwasher at the corner diner)(note: i have also been a dishwasher in my time, so me), jesus of nazerath, ahura mazda, confucious, lao tzu, odin,mohammed, snorri the peist, kingfisher, the balck bear, etc. or any of the other literal and mythical creatures who have somehow captured the imagination of us, the puny little, short lived, on our way to extinction so it doesnt matter anyway hoping for mckenna's reality to come true (novelty) group of living organisms who evolved like the rest and are not the center of the earth people on this lovley living goddess of a planet, it really doesnt' matter, because we are all one, destined to go to the same place, worm food!so if you can use your muse to spurn others to enlightenment, than by all means do. because, personally, before i became a deadhead, music head or psychedellicized myself, iwas not any one that i would wish to know. so i would like to take this moment to thank not only phil warren etc, jerry and the flaming lips burroughs crowley ginsberg alan watts campbell shakespeare kesey gentle giant the kinks, mckenna plato faulkner les claypool , albert hoffman leary henry miller zoa neil hurston etc. al or as the gentleman above so eloquently put it " we are all climbing the same mountain, we ae just taking different paths."
ps, i certainly would not want to forget zappa or neil young

>" we are all climbing the same
mountain, we ae just taking different paths."


This is so dead on, Kat.

You are a wise person.

A Rabbi, A Priest, and a duck all walk into a bar.

The bartender looks up from what he is doing and says, "What is this, some kind of fucking joke?"

Thanks Cryp...I can't remember if me and/or one of my friends came up with that or if it's a quote, so I can't really take certain full responsibility for anything but context

Ok...so you're in a club of climbers of Everest discussing the latest mindbending expedition, trying to gain wisdom from this feat..

Then a guy who loves to climb McKinley comes in and demands this mountain is the only one and we need to talk about that with out ever bothering to check out Everest...

aw, never mind, it is all the same mountain, i just like to talk about one before jumping all over the place..

To The Summit!

AJohnson, i couldn't agree more, wise words..don't forget Buckminster Fuller and James Joyce..

It's not the mountain we conquer, but ourselves.

Sir Edmund Hillary

Don't eat Mckinley OR Everest's yellow snow.


-F Zappa

: Everytime I come in the kitchen, you in the kitchen! In the
goddamn refrigerator! Eatin' up all the food. ALL the chitlins...
ALL the pig's feet... ALL the colleygreens... ALL the
hog-mows. I wanna eat them chitlins... I like pigs FEET!

PS.....It's Friday!!!

Hey Craig

Wannnnnnnnnnnnnn'git HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH?

What's up Big Perm? ...I mean Big Worm.

>>"I'm gonna go play music in Waynesboro, VA"

Yo - Kat - Waynesboro ? Where ? I lived in Staunton for years and never found a decent place in Staunton OR Waynesboro.Hell, when I moved, the only thing to do was hang out in Advance Auto Parts parking lot and drink beer on weekends. Clue me in so I can show the old buds a good place to hang.

That's crazy, never thought in a million years I'd see someone write Waynesboro anywhere.

Where's my money, Smokey?

Craig Jones: What I'm trippin on, is how you gonna sell weed,
when all you do is smoke it.
Smokey: I don't know.
Craig Jones: Well Big Worm is gonna fuck you up if you --
Smokey: Big Worm ain't gonna do a goddamn thing. And I
don't give a fuck.

keroauc, cassidy,mary shelly, p b shelly, keats, browning, led zeppelin, king crimson, the stones, lucifer, god, norman mailer, THE BEATLES, acid, pot mushrooms, drugs alcohol, sobriety, alchemy, sly stone, hendrix, socrates, israel regardie, coltrane miles ellington mingus rashamm roland kirk the harlem rennesaince, the counter culture babbs krassner, dianne diprima the ecological movement pan huxley gary snyder the arabian nights kuma sutra baphomet genesis with peter gabriel, yes ELP hemmingway night the sun our solar system the grateful dead.......so much to do, ihave to go, my daughter katarina lillian has to sign up for school, and she is my #1 inspiration, my wife, all the people i know and love mom step dad all six sisters tina susie laura deanna cathy jennie and all my frends all of you who love the dead and keep the only true thing going......love!

Chinon Elements, chinese.astrology.com
Heagh! seven shows! the bd!
upon and into our metals' true merit?!?!

all meddlingly ears!

Redneck...just my friend's barn...or another friend's field...It's the type of place where you gotta poke around, but there's heads all over the place down there...they're pretty young though...

Wow,
Went away for a week and no disrespect but had to scroll over the JC stuff. If we are the sons and daughters of God that makes Jesus our brother. We all have God and the mother inside. When I have a praise or a problem I go directly to them.
Anyway went to the mountains with the kids had a blast. Meet up with some old friends and sat around the campfire eating lobster good smoke and drink, fresh air, lots of stars, wildflowers rushing rivers, sparkly rocks, refreshing lake and laughted our faces right off our heads. Now that's my way of honoring the God inside me. Thank you for a real good time!
Haven't checked the Phil site yet but when he speaks of the 7 shows link the site cant wait to hear these shows again.

How can all these magic powers align themselves to coincide with a commercial rock band that plays in a bunch of corporate venues in a period of a few weeks? Nice publicity stunt I'm sure the deadheads fell for it.

One thing thats great about Phil Lesh (punk rock extremist) is he gets a whole bunch of pagan audience members to love and sing along with "Lay down my Dear Brother...but Jesus loves you the best..."

We also love to sing "Lucy in the sky with diamonds".
Object- Enjoy life while were here. Experince much so God can experiece through us. He is an all loving God he does not change his mind and damm us (not his style). Said before > We all have our own path <. If yours is to judge us, then so be it.
~Shine on~

i am receiving soon: spac, pine knob

still needed: jones beach and the other 4 shows out of the 7

anyone wanna swap?

i was sifting through some notes from college and came across Maslow's Pyramid, a psychological model..it amazed me how similar it is to these 7 levels of purification...that Chinese astrological stuff seemed in the same ballpark, too...

reminds me of martial arts steps toward a black belt, tangible steps toward a higher, improved level through application of science-art-physical discipline with increasing levels..

considering that there are relativley few spiritualy enlightening events happening outside of the enviromental movement, which will become the next major religious movement, a kind of worldwide taoism, or we will be destined to be without fresh water, as 450 million people do not have freshh water while we speak, as millions of amerikans water and put carcinogenic pesticides on their lawns, a large amount of them of the judaic / christian backround, considering 90 % of this country wants to steep itself in the european propigation of an ancient desert nomadic myth, the next logical step will be the earth as goddess, or we will suffocate and die of thirst in our own waste of plastic bottles and chemicals sent forth by the machinations of the oil industry, as the amerikans blindly consume in the name of jesus(not the dishwasher) and a god who cant exsist in reality, because there are no longer any worlds to conquer, they will pave and pollute the planet and we will be destined, as a species, to take part in, and indeed, accellerate the next great extinction on this planet. religion is a cancer unless it is used to positive ends, and suited monkeys in big cars goin to worship some idol on a cross two are three times a week while supping on factory farmed genetically modified foods is not a good end, it is horrific that people in this country pay homage to their god money, with their only pastime, blind consumption that is spurrned by their only prophet TV>
PS.
i am mortified that in this country, a pagen cannot grow a simple weed to do with as he sees fit, that harms no one, while my christian neighbour can spray carcinogenic pesticides onto the harmless creeping charlie in his driveway that his big deisel truck parks over anyway, whose ododr and death leak into the room of my eight year old daughter so she cannot even sleep in her own room because of the insidious vapours that permeate the cool night air, which do you think should be illeagal?

But you see if you grew your own weed than the mob would be out of alot of money......

Jesus Christ! So any band that makes enough money to tour and pay itself is "commercial?" I suppose Frenchie is an open-mic fanatic: no pay for the musicians there.
Yeah, now that you mention it, Phil IS just like N'Sync and Brittany Spears: only in it for the money.
Anybody catch Phil's new video on MTV yet? It's got T and A like nobody's bidness....right.
This crap is coming from the same guy who said Phil and Trey are egomaniacs and BORING for including their names in their bands'. James Brown is just the same way, eh?
...malarky...
and BTW it's "I love you...oh, but Jesus loveD you the best..."

or how about phils decision to make the dead archive availible for commericial interests(not). that rift between him and the rest of the band didn't really happen, it was a made for tv movie, i expect some people think phil could play at local bars where commerical interests are few, excepting of course the beer and hard liquor vendors and the dealers of goverment supported white powders(cocaine and herion). or hey, maybe phil could do a cable tv concert special ala garth brooks or shania twain, and oral roberts univeristy could sponser it with its underground pedophilia web site. we are talking about the COUNTERCULTURE here. people who support a culture that is counter to what is going on in traditional society, maybe some should do a little more non biblical reading and expand their horizons just a bit. as for those who do, you are exempt from my anti religious diatribes, be you christian or, like me heathen. wave that flag!!!!!!phreak flag#$@%&+_(##$$*))

Amen, Brother Aleister. hehehe

Hey do you think he ever saw a show?

Or should I say "experinced".

i consistantly mispell pagan for some reason, it is littering up my life!!!!!!!!

"Beautiful Lie/You can pray /You can pray
Till your buried Alive" a Robert Hunter lyric I just discovered where's it from smartie-pants?

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by
doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.

i seriously doubt that Drew

and what do you seriously doubt?

faith vs skepticism....you make the call!

i'd rather try to improve myself or something than sit around and criticize....but balance is key, don't wanna be a sucka

I love you, but JERRY loves us the best

I-guy......I think we are on two different pages here, brother..please explain yourself??.....but thanks for your input....thru my question....I am now closer to the truth......BTW they have this 60s show on the public radion station down here in Tampa....over the weekend they had a little ditty about the philosphy of the Alchemist....it reminded me of you and yours......bringing back the focus!

Hey Frenchie,
I'm not into Hunter's poems nearly as much as Dead TUNES. So no, I don't know where it's from and really don't care. Just don't misquote lyrics in a lame attempt to support your lost cause, whatever that is.
Have a great day looking up obscure trivia!

>>>
http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/sword.htm

Look familiar???
>>>http://www.peconic.net/members/worwetz/deda1.htm

interesting comparison..

speaking of which...

i just listened to michigan and jones beach...

the jam at the beginning of the 2nd set is exactly identical in both shows, but get this, the michigan version is much, much slower..same chords, completely different feel...i can't wait to compare more of the special show jams...

Now that I have my friendly-printed setlist, I have been pondering these shows and their meanings. So far there are more questions than answers, but what a wonderful gift Phil has given us to consider.

Plus, as Dustin said: it is in the questioning that knowledge is unveiled, leading us to a path of deeper wisdom.

Season I love the links: very righteous

well ask as many questions as you care to..

i'm pretty clear on what this alchemical process represents, thanks to some posters here..you could get into the semantics of answers vs questions but that seems a distraction, at least to me...heres my focus:

we have seven planets and seven physical properties matching them in this particular process..one answer

we have levels of purification that match these planets and properties...2nd answer

we have phil picking certain nights on this tour to represent these 7 levels...answer

we have jams written especially to represent these 7 levels...answer

here are my questions:

1) jill: have you looked into the planetary positions these 7 nights? were they selected because of certain astrlogical events? i was-am hoping to hear some of this from you...please enlighten if possible...

2)are there any processes laid out to attain these levels? so far i just see explanation of the levels themselves...i am very interested in any process toward purification and wonder exactly what the alchemists did to achieve these levels..

3)how does the music phil and gang played relate to these 7 levels? is there a different feel to the jams to represent the levels? how did the jams change over the 7 shows?

another question: has any musician every written music to parallel a path to enlightenment like this?

i can only think of the Yes album "Tales from Topographical Oceans" or Wagnerian operas which makes sense because Phil is a huge fan of that those operas..

a review of these jams is yet to come: hopefully by everyone who hears the cd...

One thing the ephemeris shows is that the moon was in scorpio both at the 1st jam at Greek Theatre {Intrada~>Luna} as well as the last jam in Camden {saturn}

if anyone who had thoughts on this in here and wants to b&p the one (80 min) disc I put these onto, please drop me a line.

Each jam is clearly individual in its personality, although some have similarities. One thing for certain is Phil did a great deal of work to give us a special gift this summer...

Dang, I wish I had known about this dicussion page sooner. I'm usually too busy these days to post daily. So THIS is where the cosmic stuff is. Some of it is way out. Some of it is highly relevant. I posted some stuff on another discussion thread but forgot where. My posts were also hit and miss. Now it's mostly on. There's some info about these shows somewhere on dead.net as well.

By now most of the information is out there. I'm interested in the Pine Knob show (Venus) if anyone has a good copy of it. Email me if you do. Also, could someone please point me out to other discussions of this tour that are on the philzone website. Email me. Thanks!