y'all be nice to Joanie on her 41st birthday, ya hear? and have a big ol' High Time!

the 7th and 8th are the 25th anniversary of the GD playing there.

Hey All i hope u get your im joansin shirtsand say hello to the Still Smokin Guys at the show !!!!!
peace
slice

bobby d. for joans birthday ? or will they wait til' thur ?

"you all been asleep"
"you would not believe me"

25 years ago today - do I hear Birthday BOMBS off in the distance?!?!

1978 (Sat) Red Rocks Amphitheater, Morrison, CO
Set 1:
Bertha
Good Lovin'
Dire Wolf
El Paso
Roses
Minglewood
Ramble On
Promised
Deal

Set 2:
Samson
Ship Of Fools
Estimated
Other One
Eyes
Drumz
Wharf Rat
Franklin's
Sugar Magnolia

E1: Terrapin> Saturday Night E2: Werewolves

Nice to see that people have eased up on Joan. Hard to believe anyone bashed her in the first place, but to each is own. Sure, she probably doesn't fully understand the power of the position she's been handed quite yet, but when the Boys finally give up that Stella to her, it will be glorious. Maybe they should speed up the process by putting her on a steady diet of Fluff 25, or then again maybe they'll bust it out tonight. Fingers firmly crossed...is she ready? At least give her the first Wharfrat. If not for historys sake then for her B-day. C'mon now...maybe the first DEW?

Whatever, but I am bettin' on a big fat Warewolves encore in honor of the best one ever played 25 years ago today.
Maybe Chachi(sp) will show up for Joanie's 41st and take lead vocal, just like the good ol' days.

Can you say FUCK in here? Can anyone spell Chachi?

Has there or has there not been an Althea on tour yet ??? Morning Dew ?

No, neither.

Jack Straw tonight...and/or perhaps the Shakedown...leaving for the show...report back on Wed.

The Dead - Red Rocks 7/8/03

Soundcheck:
Deep Elem Blues (Bob & Joan)
Shakedown Street

Nice soundcheck!

Ubiq

Here's the first set so far - according to folks on the chat...

jam >
friend of the devil >
1/2 step
new speedway boogie >
Night of 1000 stars >
good morning little schoolgirl>
Stagger Lee>
alligator>
mr charlie

last night chat was a bunch of lies

The Dead - Red Rocks 7/8/03

Soundcheck:
Deep Elem Blues (Bob & Joan)
Shakedown Street

Set 1:
@Jam>
@Friend Of The Devil>Jam>
Mississippi 1/2 Step>Jam>
New Speedway Boogie>
Night Of A Thousand Stars>
@Looks Like Rain
Deep Elem Blues (Bob & Joan)>
Good Morning Little Schoolgirl>
Stagger Lee
Mr. Charlie


@ Bob acoustic

like i said that chat is crap

Thanks Taperrob for the real and only real source for these real time set lists

HOLY SHIT...that first set looks INCREDIBLE. I'm lit comin home from the bar comiserating(sp?) with my friends. I can't wait till people post the reviews. I'm anxious to see if it sounds as good as it looks. Looks like rain, Deep Elem Blues, Schoolgirl. Mr. Charlie, Night of 1000 stars to kick that off - man oh man - it really hurts not being there. To all the folks taping in Red Rocks - SPREAD THE LOVE ASAP!!!!!!

Hey LastRose,

just check out zoner radio on live365.com in a couple of hours...(thanks zoners, btw) the latest show is usually streaming before people can even complain about it!

if you can't stay up, just drink a big glass of water and it'll be there for you in the morning to soothe your achin' head...

happy b-day joan!

The Dead - Red Rocks 7/8/03

Soundcheck:
Deep Elem Blues (Bob & Joan)
Shakedown Street

Set 1:
@Jam>
@Friend Of The Devil>Jam>
Mississippi 1/2 Step>Jam>
New Speedway Boogie>
Night Of A Thousand Stars>
@Looks Like Rain
Deep Elem Blues (Bob & Joan)>
Good Morning Little Schoolgirl>
Stagger Lee
Mr. Charlie

Set 2:
Playin' In The Band>
Shakedown Street...
Built To Last (Joan)>Jam>
Truckin'>Jam>
Rueben & Cerise>Jam>
Baba Jingo>
Drumz/Space>
^Happy Birthday Joan (instrumental)>
Comes A Time>
Uncle John's Band>
Playin' In The Band Reprise>
Lovelight
Donor Rap
Brokedown Palace

@ Bob acoustic
^ children bring Joan flowers on stage, crew brings out a birthday cake, Joan blows out the candles

And that my friends, was so very sweet.

is she one of us yet?

Could Night of a Thousand Stars be the hit single from the studio Lp?

7:16 a.m. CST. Coffee in hand.

They wouldn't re-record Night of a Thousand Stars, the version on There and Back Again is already sooooo good, as is the rest of the album. If anyone hasn't heard it i strongly recommend picking it up.

hey Kojisan -

Couldn't stay up, unfortunately. And Live365.com doesn't work here Oh well. HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOAN, and welcome aboard the bus! Time to get some coffee and get ready for the Cyberdance...

Wow, Big production for Joan's Birthday. That's great. I think back to Jerry's last birthday show at Auburn Hills 94 where the crowd could not even get it together to sing happy birthday and received no help from the band. I always regret that we did not give Jerry this kind of attention on his Birthday.

1st set--- YAWN !!! Sloppy, never got it together except maybe Looks Like Rain and Mr. Charlie. Lovelight was pretty good. Other than that, I was NOT impressed. Made me glad we only picked up tickets for one show. Bring back the Quintet.
I liked Joan but she should not sing 1,000 Stars ever again.
Any one else feel this way too ????

Who played keys for the majority of the show, cause I know lately it seems like Rob has been playing more organ. I really think rob should be playing piano alot more than he seems to be, in my opinion he is a much better player than chimenti is. Nothing against the guy but it's true. I've heard a couple of solos by him on this tour(Eyes especially) that were very sloppy and almost unprofessional, and went on and on. Maybe I just have a biased opinion because Rob was and still is to some degree one of my major musical influences for years. With that said I hope everyone enjoy the show, the set list looked great

Wow. First three shows down, need to seriously consider Thursday and Friday. I was psyched with last nights show. Actually, I really dug all 3 shows. Last night was upbeat, lots of teases, then hard left turns. Joan is great. Any doubts are completely gone.......

Jeff, it's nice to know that you only picked up tixs for one night. By the way, Joan SHOULD sing nights of 1000 stars.

Kill for a full review.

How in the world could ANYONE not be psyched about that first set? Don't get me wrong, I love the quintet, but, not even close to what I experienced last night. Amazing that anyone could walk away unimpressed.......Joan smoked Night of a 1000 Stars, in my humble opinion.

OK, I slept on it and here goes.

First, some comments on the er, comments. I agree with you RH, on both counts.

Second, Jeff Chimenti is pretty damn good. He did a few solos last night that were more than professional, they were flat out great. Guy can play. Come on peeps, you think the Dead would let folks who can't play in the band?

Set I

Good opening jam into FOTD, nice well done version, Bobby sounding good on acoustic. Miss. 1/2 Step is a new arrangement and very very good, they jam the vocal part out in rounds, and it really lends to the 'funkiness' of this song. Got the crowd movin'. Extended jam into New Speedway, lots of teases, good funky version of this song too, all of Red Rock's shouting "MOUN-TAAIIINNN" each time it came up . . . NOTS sent me to the head, I like Joan's version and all but . . . this is a Warren song. I wandered a bit for LLR; seen it before and they pipe it into the visitor's center so you can watch it from the bars they have down there, very cool. Deep Elam was well done IMO, good arrangement again, Lil' Schoolgirl seemed listless, quite generic blues wise actually, could have been any four bar blues tune. Wasn't too impressive. Stagger Lee again only works because of Joan's lyrical capabilities, I really like they way she Phil and Bobby take their parts in this one. And Mr. Charlie to close, Joan is truly the new Queen of the Blues.

General comments, up and down first set, well played, some highs and lows, but some serious cohesive jams! This band is hitting its stride and though they don't stick to the Dead's core catalogue, it works! Set II to follow . . .

Ok, you guys want the low down?

First set was very good. Friend of the Devil was played up tempo, like early 70' with Weir on acoustic (actuallly took the first lead). 1/2 Step has a new funky vocal part in the transition. New Speedway was great and in the groove. Night of a 1000 Stars and Looks Like Rain were not optimal song choices for me. Would rather have seen a Viola Lee or Lazy Lightnin' for the Bobby pick. Looks Like Rain had Weir on acoustic and Jimmy doing a pedal steel like effect on guitar. Sounded very much like early 72 versions with that effect. Deep Ellem into Schoolgirl were excellent choices. Both played well but a total hack job of a transition between the two. Stagger Lee was great, but not tight. I prefer 11/24/78 Stagger Lee myself but this was ok. Mr. Charlie to end the first set was high octane. Gave me chills, which is a little unique after seeing 500 Dead shows.

Second set opened with Playin' and having gone to Philly's second show (which I considered to be the best second set of the tour until last night) I knew that the tempo was going to be more up than the previous two nights. Comparing to Philly, I thought Shakedown was a better pick than Eyes. Not entirely enamoured with Built To Last but Truckin' into Reuben and Cherise was a good surprise. As they went into Baba Jingo (I hate Mickey vocals but the jamming was outstanding) we've got 6 songs before drums and you had to start wondering if they would blow off drums, which would be fine with me. Reflected back to Philly were they opened the second set with drums to get it out of the way quickly and painlessly so it was possible but not likely.

Happy Birthday was a good surprise, Comes A Time is great with Joan and UJB was another good call on their part. Lovelight was the best I've seen since 3/29/90 at Nassau with Branford.

All in all, I didn't think the second set, second night of Philly could be touched, especially with Osby on sax. Last night produced a serious challenge as the first set blew away the first set in Philly that night.

Most of the song to song transitions were totally hacked. They will get this down sooner or later but I couldn't shake the feeling that they got out of phase from time to time. Still, very high energy and great intensity.

I also couldn't help feeling the loss of Jerry during the transitions. There was a sense of uncertainty which was highly subjected to his mood and how high he was. Some nights, he looked downright cranky and you knew he was going to play real slow tunes. There's much less of that now and it's hard to tell who's stepping up to be the leader at times like that.

For you anti-Joan guys, who would you rather have, Donna? Despite the fact that I started my GD career with her, I never liked her contribution all that much, especially in '74. Joan has a quality voice and they should have done something like that years ago. She probably brings the best and most professional vocals to the band, ever.

Bobby's beard is something else. At first I thought he was going for the Father Time look but last night he looked a lot more like Charleton Heston as Moses in the 10 Commandments.

Sorry if some of you feel that this is a little jaded, but after 500 shows, you tend to get that way.

last night was good, but monday is the best show so far. the best thing about doing all 5 is that it doesn't matter, you got to see it all...

Set II et cetera;

More comments to the comments, I saw Rob play a whole lot last night, in the second set I think, didn't see Jeff a whole lot, but it seems to vary night to night. All in all I think they're probably even steven with solo time on stage and together, so 1/3 Rob, 1/3 Jeff, 1/3 together. Depends on the set list.

Onto the music. Let's just say you want this one, heck all Red Rocks shows on CD from the Dead. First night, all though it was choppy, had some great jams. Second night even better, last night second set was a real pleaser.

Playin' in the Band to start, good solid version, the star of this one was Jimmy. Let me say that Jimmy took a strong lead all night, like he has been doing. Extended leads and damn damn damn good, heck, great. Jimmy rules. Worked their way down into Shakedown, pretty standard but solid, crowd was rockin' and loving it. Again, Jimmy huge on that 'wah-wah' type sound. Jams in this were getting out there, great jazzy stuff ala the Quintet. Built to Last was an odd choice to stick in there, but heck, another solid version and once again Joan's vocal makes the Dead's version work. Jam out of BTL was entering sick territory and works its way into Truckin'! Now this one had everyone jukin' hard. Rocking version, the final jams were heading into the stratosphere. And then, in this reviewer's humble opinion, the HIGHLIGHT of the entire show! Rueben & Cherise! Can we just call this band Joan Osborne and Friends? Seriously, I personally went nuts when they played this b/c its a favorite. GREAT version, Joan does this one so well, actually I haven't heard her do a Jerry tune I didn't love. I can't say enough about R & C. You must hear this. Buy the CD. I'm still grinning ear to ear from this.

Jam>Baba Jingo fast and furious into another ASTOUNDING drums, I swear drums has been ridiculous these past two nights. Real heavy on the BIG boys in the back, at one point late in drums Billy and Mickey are both on them just pounding so fast the mallets were just a blur, and some HUGE rumbles coming up the rocks, I mean this stuff is awesome. Combined with the incredible light show they have now this is something to behold. Mickey got on the beam early and made some freaky sounds as usual, kicked it a few times but he didn't hump it. I don't think I've ever seen Billy and Mickey play so effing hard and fast!

Nice Space, Joan got a little whacky with the voice in space, some weird tremolo type thing, sounded like a wild animal or bird, the only time I've ever cringed listening to her. I prefer her to stick to the Pink Floyd-esque type stuff, like Great Gig in the Sky type thing. Then a nice birthday party for Joan, crowd went nuts, all the kids came out and gave her flowers, the crew gave her a cake, she seemed really touched, think she got misty. Then she gave US a birthday present with Comes a Time. Another home run. Joan can sing any Jerry song to me any time. Uncle John's was solid too, more great Jimmy jams coming out of it back into Playin'. Lovelight had the place rockin'; Joan leading everyone in a sing along that worked. Brokedown closer, standard, but by now the crowd was singing' their own tune, so it was a kind family sing along.

All in all I'm very impressed and looking forward to Jones Beach. Wish I had planned on the whole week!

very well put de-creed.

the boys and girl lost their anchor and took flight last night. it was good solid show that held steady momentum. joan was treated to b-day celebration of style and i'm very glad that they all brought us along for the ride !

sure am enjoying the time that the band's alotted for this little visit of theirs. keep it coming.

Man I wish I was in Red Rocks.....

I agree with Doug - Donna SUCKS (btw, thanks to all who posted reviews). I hate crankin a show up realy loud and gettin in the groove during a long drive and then having to turn it down while she sounds like a dying sheep during Playin in the Band. The only song she ever sounded half decent in was WR. Sorry Donna fans, just my opinion.

I only know of one tape where Donna is not unbearable, 6/19/76 Capitol Theater in Passaic, Playin' in the Band. She does the Playin' yell in low register, which is where Joan is anyway. Some worst moments, on tape, include Lexington, KY 6/18/74 China Doll. Just awful.

Oh yeah, one other thing you guys might find interesting. Bobby played a total of three different guitars throughout the night. He seems to be playing the Telecaster as the main deal, but picks up the acoustic for certain songs in the first set. But, during Deep Ellem or Schoolgirl (I can't remember which) he was playing an electric, metal, hollow body guitar that looked like a Gibson.

Also, Jimmy is not playing his standard Strat. Looks like he's playing a custom Paul Reed Smith. Any guitar heads out there know what that is?

One thing you have to give Donna is that she went for it. Unfortunately she rarely made it, but when she did it was tremendous.

A comment re: Jimmy. I wish he played less notes. One of Jerry's finest qualities was that he gave every note character. He knew to play a note and let it hang out there. Jimmy could take some lessons from some 85, 86 shows. We all know that when it comes to playing guitar it is not about quantity of notes played but instead it is about the quality of the notes played.

I believe Jimmy is playing a custom PRS, not sure on the specs.

the gibson you're referring to...bobby's custom hollow body modulus w/ floating humbuckers? he's got a black and white one?

Thanx Doug for an honest review from a longtime head.I'd rather have someone tell it like it is rather than someone who just follows blindly and thinks everything is dandy even though it isn't.You'll probably be flamed for being honest ..... which just sucks !!!!

Jimmy's guitar (or at least the one he played in Hartford) is a PRS McCarty custom with three soapbar pickups.

Hey Doug, are you the same Doug Mow who recorded all those killer shows in the '70-80's. Chris's bro? It's Georgie. Email me... Some of those tapes still sound crisp, like 10/11/83.

If so, this dude knows his shit...though I can't quite agree w/him about Philly. I saw 2nd night too and thought it was just okay BUT I haven't heard any discs yet, which will tell the story...Playin'>Shakedown, yeah, that would take me back to '78, Cleveland & Pauley, both of which I got from you, through Chris....

Hope you stick around a while.

mnwolfman - Bobby's hollow body had a chrome finish, not black or white. At least that's what it looked like through the binoc's.

Kikkoman - Agree with you on Jimmy, although super speed is his style. There are plenty of times that I thought Jerry should have been more like that. Then again, in 79, 80 and 81, Jerry was into the speed thing. Jimmy's going for the high notes more now than before. And, it looks like he's getting more comfortable with the pace and beat of the songs. He'll mature into his own groove and it's good to see that he's going for his own thing instead of trying to be Jerry #2, which we all know would be disastrous and in vain.

I wish the Dead were playing tonight - it would be interesting to see the setlist. A great encore would be instrumental Black Muddy River and Stella Blue, or maybe have Joan sing the shit out of Stella Blue - like, REALLY rock it in a tribute to Jerry, and play each one for a half hour. 8 years ago today...
And for all those people out there who haven't heard Patchwork Quilt yet (I can't imagine there being too many), you should really take a listen today if possible. Great lyrics:
"I never knew you, but then who really did
If you were at all like me, you managed to keep yourself hid
A patchwork quilt of a life, memories embroidered on your soul

So please forgive me, for putting you in my song
But the spirit, she moves me, in fact she pushes me along
It's a patchwork quilt of a life, can't stop the river, just let it roll

We were at Jones Beach when we got the word
Saddest sound that I've ever heard
The bluest note that nobody could play
Ravens sang with us that night on the stage
Tears of sadness, tears of rage
But nobody spoke, we all felt old and in the way

So walk beside me, or above me I don't know
These days, it sure seems, I'm lost wherever I go

"God, how could you", I heard somebody say
"What do we do with our lives, now, anyway
Now that our North Star can no longer be found"
There's a banjo moon in a tie dyed sky
Hippies dance and babies cry
Church bells ring as a silver haired angel looks down

And the blood of his music runs through the veins of our guitars
Bright lights, dark star

I never knew you, but then who really did
If you were at all like me, you managed to keep yourself hid

We miss you Jerry!

George - Sent you an email under separate cover. Yeah, I'm that guy.

Here's my rap on the Philly show. The second set song selection was superb, for me. It was up tempo and the guys seemed to be 'in the zone' much more than the prior night...almost 80% of the duration of the entire set. First thing is they got drums out of the way early. Mason's is always a good song pick for me...first saw it with P&F and love it. I had not heard Joan belt out a song, up to that point, that was as intense as China Doll, which I thought was a better song choice than most others. I thought it was the best 'Doll' I had seen since 5/11/81, which I believe you were at. And, with the sax guy wailing, it was very...different. Unbroken Chain was, again, a better choice than most. Especially since I missed it in 94, 95, although from those versions that I've heard, this was much better. 94,95 Chains were kind of going through the motions, IMO. Stephen, Wm Tell, 11 fake out is always good, but at that point the destiny of the show had already been laid out, or so I thought. Then, Ripple kind of threw it over the top, with Bid You Goodnight as the icing. Hand't seen Ripple since Radio City, which I know you were at as well. The downer was Mickey singing Aiko. They should turn his mike off, but he's turned into quite a ham these days.

But.....on top of the set list, they were in the zone, tight and hot. And, they seemed to be able to get into that zone effortlessly, which seemed to be quite a struggle for them the first Philly night and the first Red Rocks night.

My opinion only, to each his own. You take from it what you can and be happy about it.

How about a "Joan Sings Jerry" CD from this tour?

So- a question for those who have been on the entire tour- which nights thus far warrant spending the dough for the official sbd's?

Lando- sounds like he was playing a Dobro? was he using the slide?

No slide, not a dobro either, although tell me how I would distinguish between a dobro and this hollow body. I've seen pictures of Dickey Betts with a Dobro and it looked like there was a circular metal insert in the body. Bobby's was entirely metal with what looked like a standard neck, pegs on both sides of the head, not one side like a Fender.

Definitely metallic in color. Very shiny, which is why I thought it was chrome. Very pretty, very unique tone, and, as soon as Deep Ellem was over, he switched back to the Tele.

Pinman - I haven't seen the whole tour. I've seen 4 so far....two in Camden, NJ and the first and third shows at Red Rocks. IMO, you will not be disappointed with the second night of Camden (6/28) and the third night of Red Rocks (7/8). Depends on what you want, though. I'm very critical about tapes so I'm looking for special songlists and a lot of tight, hot jamming. Those two would fall into that category.

Pinman - One other thing about those shows. On setlist.com these shows are rated, presumably by some who went to the shows. Second night Camden and third night Red Rocks are rated 4.56 and 4.82 out of 5, respectively, and are the two highest rated shows since Valentine's Day of this year.

i love Phil, but please leave the jerry songs to joan and bobby. you are meant to sing certain songs and we love them. just not the jerry songs which need real feeling. also, no more mickey Fire on the Mountain.

ok.....just to throw in my 2 cents
First off I started the day by getting to red rocks at 11 am, ran to the line and wamm I was aboout 20 people deep in line...as soon as the gates opened I dashed up and grabbed seats 3 rows up right in front of phil!!! It was by far the best sound I have got from the three nights...rows 36 27 and 4 respectively each night, making the wait well worth it. I got to see some great interaction between band members troughout the night which was awesome! last night was by far the best of the three in my opinion (and everyone is entitled to their own). The jams were very tight and the energy was unbelievable. The first set SMOKED! I knew the night was going to be special The looks like rain was extremely powerful and bob nailed the lyrics perfectly. the stagger lee was something I was hoping they would play and was very pleased with this version.....and the mr charlie closer was so hot!
during set break I called a playin opener and lovelght closer for the 2nd set, no shit! my whole group just looked at me when they played both respectively and got a good laugh The playing to start the set was very nicely jammed with the whole band stepping up. Shakedown was clearly a highlight of the set with the vocal jam at the end being almost flawless....then after the long (3-5 min?) outro jam and right at the big end bobby holds the band perfectly and "signals" the bomb back into the shakedown jam>>>those that were thereknow what im saying if they watched the interaction....it was beautiful! the truckin was so nicely played with tons of huge bombs perfectly dropped the cherise was nice and the dums were solid....but the comes a time was really something special, not sure what else to say other than joan sang it so well it was sickening, very touching! the playin reprise was nice but the Lovelight close had the crown rocking the rocks soi hard it made me just laugh with the biggest grin...made me fell so goooddd! the brokedown was beautiful with bobby forgeting one set lyrics running over to barroca who tells him and then without missing a beat bobby gets back to sing it in harmony....truely a magical night! thanks so much boys! and the girl was fing awesome, no more doubts here at all!!!

549!
549!
549!

The stream is as good as I remember it last night. Thanks to those involved (Taperrob) for providing us with this unique gift!
A few comments...again, the band is evolving ...some rough spots last night: starting Stagger Lee and several of the segues. On the other hand, the jams between songs have been interesting and well played on other occassions.

I've only seen a few shows out here this summer,but over the last 23 years have seen various Dead/Family shows and this is just another band on the evolutionary continium. It's about the band ...NOW. And this band at the moment is picking up momentum. Last night, there playing was tight and the band looked relaxed and seemed to really be enjoying playing.

Jimmy's guitar was more audible to me...but that might have been a seating/logistics thing coupled with some wind Sunday night. Joan is fantastic on blues songs such as Mr.Charlie and Lovelight.

The place wasn't as oversold as was the case on Sunday, although the vibe was great Sunday too!

I only wish, (and this is just a subjective thing), that they would push Phil's bass out a bit more.

Had an excellent time with the folks I was with and the people I met! What a gift to have the band at Red Rocks for five nights. Thank you everyone including the band/family!

Just got back from Red Rocks and I have to say, This band is alot better than I ever expected. Here is some advice, Go see this band if you get a chance! I really did not think they would be this good. Another big surprise was the crowd. It was so nice to see all the older heads coming out of the woodwork. Very respectful and friendly. I guess the $60 ticket is keeping the filthy dirtbag phish head element at bay. The dead are back folks! Enjoy the renaissance.

>> This band is alot better than I ever expected.
>> Here is some advice, Go see this band if you
>> get a chance! I really did not think they
>> would be this good. ...
>> Enjoy the renaissance.

he's right you know. had the exact same feeling
after 6/21 and 6/22.
-tim

It really is wonderful to see and interact with new and old heads...
I've found the vibe to be very cool and people to have lots of gratitude related to the band and the scene.

Old bumpersticker: "Who is this band, and why do they keep following me!"

Time to finally contribute something here and post a few comments about the first three nights of Red Rocks, my first "Dead" shows and my 98-100th time seeing Phil over the past 20 years! (he surpassed Jerry which I saw 99 times).

I was very impressed to say the least. Oh sure, it wasn't perfect, e.g. transitions were pretty much non-existent. But when you consider that this is the first tour for this band (forget last fall.....the "landscape" has changed since then) the potential has got me really excited. PLQ had been the first and only thing that inspired me musically since Jerry died, but IMHO The Dead top PLQ by a tiny amount. More variety and possibilities along with that "Grateful Dead" sound are the reason.

Joan blew me away. The woman has got confidence, PERSONALITY and a real nice soulful blues voice. Roses, Days Between, Sugaree, Mr. Charlie, Comes A Time were all tremendous and show highlights. This sentiment was shared by several other GD veterans, although not all. Without Joan, I would prefer PLQ. For someone who stared at Jerry, Joan provides a nice visual......her dancing was very cool (I did hear that she tempered it down some from earlier shows). I loved her taking the mike and going to the crowd ....at least I knew she was not peaking down at here lyric cheat sheets. Okay, can you tell I liked Joan. Joan makes it easier for people like me who were so attached to Jerry to listen to the sweet slow Jerry songs.

Bob (I am the Walrus) Weir needs to shave....avoid looking at the large screen TV whenever a closeup of him appears.

They need to turn Phil up a little more.

Anybody feel the rush of wind (Jerry's Spirit) towards the end of Days Between?

Jeff and Rob are for the most part "in the background" (I think Joan has stole their time). Plus Bob is singing what Rob might have song last fall.

Tuesday night was the best show. First set was great. Deep Elem, Looks Like Rain, Mr. Charlie all really great. And any second set that starts with Playin' works for me!

I would rate Sunday slightly ahead of Monday if for no reason other than the Days Between. First set Sunday was not as great as it looks on paper. Drums on Monday was out of this world. One of the best I've ever seen.

It was also cool seeing old friends who I hadn't seen in at least 8 years!

>>>>I guess the $60 ticket is keeping the filthy dirtbag phish head element at bay

I'm a filthy dirtbag with over 100 dead shows. You would have looked down on me during my touring days. Nice. So much for the "kind" scene I was hoping for, I geuss it'll be a bunch of uptight snobs.

Snobs suck.

Actually, I should say "Snobbery sucks". One unpleasant aspect of a person doesn't make a whole person suck.

549!!!! 549!!!! 549!!!!

By backonthebus ..Actually, I should say "Snobbery sucks". One unpleasant aspect of a person doesn't make a whole person suck..

Nice re statement BOTB...I will keep that thought with me as I read these threads...

>>Actually, I should say "Snobbery sucks".

I think it's more Xenophobia than snobbery.

They are related. Once you think you are better than someone else, you are acting like a snob. There are many reasons why you may think someone is not as good as you, one of which is xenophobia. But, yeah, I get your point.

Either way, its a shitty attitude that didn't seem as prevelant in the dead scene as it is now. At least I didn't know many deadheads who talked like that back in the day. Maybe they were out there, but I certainly hung with a more polite class of folk.

We might have laughed our heads off about an individual incident, like the dude at the bar of the Penta hotel in NY who kept counting his last 7 dollars like it would multiply and then tried to pull some kind of big spender attitude, but I just never hung out with people who would call a generalized group of people "filthy dirtbag"s. Its sad to see this element in the scene.

Clean up the scene!
No Attitudes!

I usually just come in to this site to read reviews and see set lists, but I had to comment on the "scene comments".

Yes, filty dirtbag is a rather insulting term, and there are better ways to describe people whom you dislike. On the other hand, having said that, I started going to dead shows in 79 and I've never met a bunch of people who say one thing (love, peace and share) then act another way, as I have at dead shows. Yes, I met many nice people at shows, but also a lot of ass holes. The snibbler, the person who won't get out of your seat becasue his/her seat sucks, the person who clogs up the walk ways while your trying to get by when your hands are full and they dont' move, the person who hasn't showered in what 2 weeks. (How hard is it to get soap on the body once in a while), when the band themselves tell you not to come if you don't have a ticket, yet heads ignore them, so the results, the band can't play in some of our favoirte venues. People who go back and forth in your row becasue they are hiding form security. People who beg for your water or food. The many many heads who smoke cigarettes without ever caring how it affects you. There are many more issues.

I've never experienced this at any other concert I've ever attended. I've seen at least a 500 shows in my life. I wish all fans could act the way they do at jazz and folk shows. The most pleasant people.


I've never met so many selfish people as I have at dead shows. Starting around 83, I just started staying in the nicer hotels, usually where the band stayed. My buddies and I would hang at the hotel until show time. When the show was over, back to the hotel. I had a much nicer time this way. The streets always looked like a bomb went off after the show. I use to just laugh as I left.

To me and my buddies, the Grateful Dead was about the music. That's it. Nothing else.

On another note. Is there still a scene? I've been to many post Jerry shows and really have yet to even see a scene. When attending the shows the only thing I see on my way in is drug dealers and people with the fingers up looking for their free ticket because they are too cheap to buy one.

The thing that bothered me the most at shows? People who bring their pets, then leave them tied to their cars as they go to the shows. You know it's bad when the Animal Rescue in each city is allerted the GD is coming to town and to look for mis-treated animals. And people who bring their toddlers when they know there will be drugs everywhere and in the air, if you know what I mean. If you can't find someone to watch your kid or pets, stay home. Who is more important? Going to the show or your kids and pets. I wonder sometime.

On another note. I think Joan is awsome. I think Susan was awsome. She just didn't get the time to blend with the band. Plus she has so much other stuff on her plate. Either one is fine with me.
While I would choose these two over Donna any day, I still like hearing Donna's background vocals on Row Jimmy, LLR, and other first set tunes. WWR too.

The Dead is the best GD cover band yet. I don't expect a lot. Just my money's worth and they haven't let me down yet.

Xenophobia is the right word. There's always been attitude on tour, now there are more variations. From "everything is Grateful Dead, everything is wonderful, give me your extra ticket because I don't have any money and don't have a life", to "these guys are old and suck and Phish blows them away", to "there's only one Jerry and any other lineup sucks". Keep it to yourself. Don't shove it in my face and I won't tell you what I think of you.

On a more positive note, sojerryroads has some good points there. PLQ blew me away in terms of the uncertainty of song selections. The first time I saw them they played Help, Slip then started jamming Elizabeth Reed. There's no telling what those guys are going to do and that brought back the old days of the Dead when the anticipation was one of the best parts. There's still some of that now, with the expanded repertoire, but without Jerry and the effect of his buzz or his own attitude (cranky or up beat) it's different. Not better or worse, just different.

Sorry Harry, but if the Grateful Dead are about the music and nothing but the music, and you basically stayed within the confines of your hotel due to your disgust with so many aspects of the concerts and attendees..then wtf are you posting for?..Go back to your enclave, put on a disc and you can resume not associating with us.

PS I've been to innumerable concerts over the past 30+ years and believe me there are rude,nasty folks at every one of them
Country? Drunken slobs
Heavy Metal? Violent boors
Punk? Mean creeps
Jazz? Rude chatty snobs.
You bet.

"There is nothing like a Grateful Dead concert"
and That is a compliment and congratulations

Ah, the children comment.

kinda gets my ire up, and i know it's been beaten down so i'll bite my fingers after i say this...

my toddlers had a great time, met some fantastic folks, heard great music (mia was singing Fire on the Mountain during our plane ride home), and even took some first steps.

yes, there was some odor in the air...hopefully they didn't get too high from second hand smoke. i suppose i should put them back into the air tight cannister now so that they aren't exposed anymore. and i do apologize if they were a burden to you. quick now, back to the Ritz.

See Olo, when I was hanging out at the hotels, usually it was with a shit lot of other heads who felt the same way I did. And lots of times, we hung out with people assocated with the band. We would hang at the bar, the gym or go to a local pub and hang out. Rap about the music. Talk about the shows. You see where I'm going here. It's about the music. You think that unless I or my friends were not hanging in the scene, we were hanging out in a cave. Our way, we met the band members, hung out with people in the know, which I thought was always cool. Plus it was always a pleasant experience. Jazz fans, rude and snobby. I doubt it. Maybe people who are polite at jazz shows just won't put up with GD fans (not all)ways and you didn't like it.

Sorry Robert, I would never take my son to any related Dead show. Way too many drugs. He will have enough chances in his life to get high on second hand smoke (not his choice) why should I put this on him now?

Kids are never a burden to me. I always pity them at shows becasue their parents think they want to go and in reality your kids would rather be home with you than at a show with us.

i sat next to some hippies monday who had a dead daycare goin on right next me. there were about 7 children and i think that they lost one. while one of the people were looking for him, the others were laying down in the row, in the dark, and the hippies were getting mad when people walking through were accidently kicking them and tripping over them because they couldn't see them and had no idea that people were laying down in row. one child was sleeping under the bench, were everything was being spilt and kicked. halfway through the second set, they left.
i am all for exposing kids to the life, but there are just too many people at these shows to be letting your kids run around, lay down in the row or under the seats. those kids had a good time until the music started and everyone started to move. the parents were more worried about seeing the show than watching their children and taking care of them. the children didn't bother me, but i felt sorry for them getting kicked and lost. take care of your children, they should be your most treasured possesion. take them to dora the explorer or sesame street, but a packed rock concert is no place to let them roam free...

Question to all you parents that took your kids to the shows: Have they taken you to see Finding Nemo? Other kids movies? Thomas the Tank Engine park in PA?

Are you doing this because you believe it is quality time with your kids? If so, more power to you. Or, are you doing this because you are selfish and are going to inflict your way of life on them, on your terms and your terms only?

Answer truthfully now. No sense lying to yourself. Only you will suffer from your own hypocracy.

there has been good and bad always...we all know this no matter how many shows you have been to.

i seem to remember every city that the GD went through (unfortunately enough) more was mentioned in the paper about about arrests and drugs than music. there have been numerous tragic events that i will refrain from mentioning when the GD was touring.

i think this is just the new generation of fans that we are seeing. this happens over time and some fans are good some are fans not so good. But how does one judge such a thing?

Touch of Grey brought a whole new wave of people "one the bus".

I have to say as much as i do not like "the scene" so much, nothing too bad has happened from what I have heard. I haven't seen or heard of any violence, thank god. has anyone else?

I have to say that at least with this band the incredibly negative stigma of even listening to "the Grateful Dead" has largely been decreased. even having a GD sticker on your car used to be reason to be pulled over in the past, not sure if that still holds true, doubt it.

with so many people congregating to see a band among (all age groups and various types of people) there will be people that don't get along. let's not forget that this is only a concert, albeit a much different and better one than most.

enjoy the show. go to see the music. if you don't like the scene, then do as someone said above and go back to your hotel or wherever you are staying and reflect on the music. times change and so does everyone else. this would be a different scene no matter who was on stage or whatever other bands were touring. trustafarians were following the GD before pheesh was around too.

my $.02
hope i didn't offend anyone.

respectfully
scott

PS Bobby looks like the Monopoly guy.

I agree with you Soulshiner. It's one thing to take kids to a festival in the afternoon perhaps being a good distance from the sound system, and being alert to what is going on.
Or, bring the children when they're a bit older. I sat next to a mother who brought her 13 year old son on Tuesday.

I, too, have witnessed the same thing at Red Rocks. We might have seen the same group on the side. I've seen many of shows in the last quarter of a century, so I feel I can speak from experience, and I am not new to witnessing such things or to having babies or children around.

Putting one's desires to see a concert ahead of your children's needs/protection/ is NARCISSISTIC to the max!

On a similar note, I'm always amazed at movie theaters when folks bring their babies. One experience I can recall a person was leaving and returning a half-dozen times, until patrons finally politely asked the parent to leave when it was obvious the baby was miserable as were the moviegoers.

With that said, I do feel there are places that it's fine to take babies/children, but laying under the seats of the row, or wandering away/getting lost at a late night concert...Please!

Harry, I assure you its all about he music for me. Too bad I couldn't afford to stay in the same posh hotel as the band, and I'd rather be outside than watching TV in my room at the motel 6. Sometimes we hung at the pool, and in the right places maybe we'd go to the show early.

I'm sure glad I didn't have to hang with anyone who thought he was too good to hang out with me.

Looking forward to the Fla shows and hope these hightone snobs aren't there. YUCK!

btw, almost all rock concerts have a percentage of assholes spilling beer and not letting you get past o your seat. Some have a higher snot factor that others, and GD does have a lot of fans who think their shit don't stink.

Actually, I correct myself, the vast majority of deadheads (not kids who come just to party) are good people. Some are snobs. Others are prejudiced against heads not as well-heeled as them or with funny hair. Others just think they are really cool.

Attitude SUCKS. Just be chill and have fun.

This night still has the highest rating on setlist.com.

Great to see that everyone is staying mature and calm on this thread. If you've ever gone to a board for movies like the Matrix or Star Wars, things get kind of emotional and out of control.

Ok, I finally feel the need to post. I finally, after 15 years made it to the ROCKS!!! Well worth it. I went on Monday and Tuesday. I thought overall, Monday was mellow, played well, but mellow. Tues show was tight, Rocking and solid from begining to end. Just listened to it twice. (Thanks Zoneradio)Compared to the two east shows that I had already seen,(Saratoga and Mansfield) the band has taken it to a new level. Kinda tired of the Mickey song thing, but it makes for a good rest room break. I cant say enough great things about Red Rocks as a venue. The coolest people attending, you CAN bring a small cooler inside...WITH SEALED BOTTLES OF H2O!!! Never a beer line (Fat Tire on draft!), real nice people working there...Did anyone check out the Dead Art/Photo exhibit/Red Rocks Hall of Fame????WOW!!! and those bathrooms downstairs....Nice!! I will make every effort to get back to the Rocks soon... Tues was the best show of the four that I've seen... wish I was there tonight and tomorrow...expect one of the nights to get deep (Dark Star/The Eleven/Viola) some mind bending is due...

comes a time...

probably my highlight of the three days. joan just shined on this. i guess she had to after the birthday space jam. pulled off perfectly.

i was not into the lovelight though. joan's call and response jig just didn't do it for me. i think it came out of nowhere to.

all in all it was a wondeful trip. though i did miss the meatier tunes. i loved every night but i could've used a dark star, helpslipfranklins, viola, eyes, etc. no worries though. good times had.

>>>This night still has the highest rating on setlist.com

thats really suprising to me. i was with 8 other people and all of us thought monday was the best. by far it was not the greatest on paper, but the playing was to perfection on monday. all 3 nights were great though. wish i could hit the last 2. rumors of santan and dylan showing up tonight.

did someone post a message saying phil's there and back again album was great? are you serious? had to have been a joke..that album is terrible!

"I always pity them at shows becasue their parents think they want to go and in reality your kids would rather be home with you than at a show with us."

Glad you're more in touch w/ my kids than I am. I danced with my daughter for the entire 1st set, we also spent some time climbing a tree on the side. I didn't see much of the first set. Our 1yr old spent most of the night in the wrap w/ mom. he woke up w/ a perplexed look on his face for a moment during Space, then fell back to sleep. Mia slept on me for just about the whole 2nd set. But seriously, I do appreciate your concern. Sorry you're missing out on sharing a potentially wonderful experience w/ your kid...but most certainly that's your decision as a parent. I was being facetious about the 2nd hand smoke comment. Other than smoking, we didn't see any drug use. no needles sticking in arms, no folks choppin' up lines on the benches. none of that, fortunately.

"Question to all you parents that took your kids to the shows: Have they taken you to see Finding Nemo?" Absolutely. we go see many movies/plays/children's museum type things. Am I selfish for taking my kids to RedRocks to see the Dead? perhaps, as it is more important to me than to them. Do I go w/ the intention of spending more time listening to the music or getting wasted? hell no. i went to dance w/ my daughter. i went the next night to dance w/ all of you.

Clearly i'm on the other side of the fence than most of you on this issue. I do agree w/ lots thats been said...not letting them roam free, protecting them from certain things, and trying not to let them ruin an event for someone else. But i would argue that if those things are happening, they're happening at more than just the show.

it was my wife's 30th bday, we had a party w/ some friends and their toddlers (party hats & cake), and then we all went to the show. It was great. Everyone did well. We left during the Other One to beat the rush, and to get the kids to bed. Not sure i see the evil, narcisistic, self-serving actions herein, but maybe you do.

having said that, i don't think we'll take them to another concert for awhile...it's exhausting.

mnwolfman - Great post. There are those that disagree but your response is mature and logical, from your point of view. The key is quality time with the kids, however you want to do that. That means doing their stuff too. Exhausting either way, but the moments in life that are worth cherishing. For those that don't have kids, I hope you do as the joy from them exceeds any show, any tour (including 74 or 77) or any buzz.

Thanks Lando.

Fortunately, we had one of those moments at the show, prior to, when some little girls sported out Mia w/ beads, tiara, et all. It was great to watch her give her beads to other people...non-Mardi Gras style.

you are so right though, it's better than anything in the world. we dance at home alot, and she was really excited when she recognized Fire o/ the Mtn. too bad she didn't get her fav tune, They Love Each other...she's got all the words down. nothing like dancing w/ your daughter though...nothing else matters.

I took my 7mo old son to Red Rock's and he loved it. With a family of 20 friends and double ear plugs he was happy as a clam. If for whatever reason he wasn't enjoying himself one of us would
take him back to are overpriced hotel room.
Like Harry, we are there strictly for the music.
The people who are there for the scene are the people who are ruining the scene.
You can bet that the Dead will never play
Red Rocks again after my friends found some wookie
DEAD on tuesday at cheif hosa. If more people were
aware of the awsome beauty of this music instead of the pathetic circus that is the scene, this shit wouldn't happen. I know that using terms like wookie and dirt bag may sound harsh, but there is no reason to advertise when your doing all sorts of illegal shit.

a death at Chief Hosa? There was also a car accident fatality in Lakewood on Sunday night related to a show-goer that blew off a redlight.

idiots.

Wow that sucks joe. what's cheif hosa?

I have some friends who take kids to show sometimes, and its great when they do BUT they do it the right way, the right time, the right place. They have 3 girls and are expecting a boy. The mom makes matching dresses for herself and the girls. The oldest, Sierra, loves to dance at shows. I've camped with them at fests, and its great. They'd never take their kids to a place like Bonnaroo--too many people, to far to walk. But the jamgrassy-type fest we go to is great for kids, and they love it. I've seen them bring the girls to actual concerts, but only outside, on the lawn, and in a non-crowded area. Sometimes they go with other families to have the kids surrounded by familiar adults.

They have it together.


The dog thing bums be out.

Time to move on to tonite...start getting psyched...start your song wish list. Hate to leave a great thread with all of you, but there's a show tonite!

when we got back to zang's rental car on tuesday there were two guys and a girl with a cooler and chairs set up in front of his car. they were soooooo fucked up, i've never seen anyone this messed up. they were listening to this real slow techno and their faces were all pasty. the girl was staring at her hands, the dude just staring at the sky saying something about being somewhere tomorrow. we asked them to move so we could get out and all they could do was look at us. until finally one dude got up and then fell flat on his face. they had beer bottles all over the place.

we were starting to back up when the girl realized she couldn't find her dog so she tried calling the dogs name but could barely speak the words to do so. i'm guessing they were on some extacy or some other chemical shit but they were super super messed up. too sad. really sorry to hear that someone died at the campground.

ps. IF YOU CAN'T TAKE CARE OF YOUR DOG AT THE SHOW THEN LEAVE THEM AT HOME YOU FUCKING IGNORANT ASSHOLES.

if you can be responsible for your dog and give them water and keep them cool while you're in the show, then great by all means take you dog along. but if you can't even keep track where your dog is while cars are backing up or give the the pup some water, then you shouldn't even have him in the first place.

Just my .02 cents about the kids thing...

I'm not a father, but at the Milwaukee show I watched a couple dance with their two children, both of whom were about 3-5 years old, and i don't think i've ever seen a happier look on a child's face...

One of the kids would even get real excited during the high points, seeming to "get it" at such a young age...i was jealous, both of the parents and the kids...i watched them dance for most of the first set, and the looks on those kids faces filled me with such joy...

Personally, i think it's great that kids can be brought to and can enjoy the Dead expierience...cause it's not like that with every band...and i don't think it's too hard to keep them away from any bad aspects of the scene. After all, that's what parenting is all about, right? I say if they're gonna have a good time like the kids i saw in Milwaukee seemed to have, bring 'em on...the more the merrier.


ps...i just read the last two post about Chief Hosa and the car accident...is this for real? If so, that really sucks...

It sucks if the dead couldn't go back to red rox, but honestly, I'm much sadder for the family of the dead guy than I am for us not getting to see concerts at the venues of our choice.

Would they boycott a venue if there was a death? I don't think they stopped going to the Meadowlands after Adam Kahn's death in the mid 80's. That one was a real bummer. The only reason they've avoided venues is if the crowd is totally out of control (Irvine style).

What happened at Chief Hosa? There's no mention of anything in the Post this morning or on any of the Denver based news web sites?

>I took my 7mo old son to Red Rock's and he loved it. With a family of 20 friends and double ear plugs he was happy as a clam. If for whatever reason he wasn't enjoying himself one of us would
take him back to are overpriced hotel room.
Like Harry, we are there strictly for the music.<

No, Harry disapproves of you taking children. No ifs ands or buts.

See Harry, I've been to shows ranging from Bobby Darrin to Bob Dylan, Ravi Shankar to Buddy Rich, Marty Robbins to Pearl Jam. I've moshed to The Clash and had picnics to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
I've stayed at hotels and camped. I've arrived and split at the very last moments and I've hung out in parking lots discussing Umberto Eco and Robert Altman with strangers. I've met stars and wannabes. I've been comped, BPed and guest listed and I've scrounged for sold out tix.
My point is exlusivity. There is no one special way to enjoy an event. to believe so is to be narrow minded and singular.
Yes Harry, at the many, many jazz concerts I've attended there was always quite the number of attendees who were rude, snobbish and chatty. For every serious jazzbo attending a showcase there is someone there to impress friends, drink heavily, put on airs and is basically clueless to the music.
It has nothing to do with being a deadhead as I'm quite capable of leaving my tie dye at home. Again, your dismissive disdain is broad and apparent. It smacks of obnoxious elitism and pompous air.
Get out of your narcisstic room full of mirrors and stop throwing stones.

There was a death at Hosa in 1987, but I do not believe that was solely or even partially what contributed to the Dead not being able to play there. I remember the coroners car...not something one wants to see.

How sad and tragic if true.

How about something a little more upbeat? Any guesses on tonite's song selection?

Some friends of mine noticed this kid had been sitting in the sun for about a hr and decided
to go give him some water and suggest that he move into the shade, when they got there they saw
that his eyes were all rolled back in his head
and and that he had a very weak pulse,my one friend having been a nurse emediately called 911
and started trying to help the kid but he was to far gone. The ironic thing was that she was the
one that we had been telling not to camp at Hosa
and that she should stay in the overpriced hotel room. This shit started getting really bad in the 90's with all the bad drugs and total lack of respect for the music and each other. We need to take care of the scene and respect what we have.
We are representatives of the Dead scene and we should be cautious of the impression that we leave
in the communities that we visit.
Be Safe and have fun.
Peace,
Joe

>>>No, Harry disapproves of you taking children. No ifs ands or buts.

I don't care what harry think's, but I understand what he's saying when he say's that he's not there for the scene but for the music.

Hate to tell you, but this didn't start in the 90's. It was there in 87 when heads were smoking crack in the parking lots in NYC.

But is that a representative of all dead concert goers? Nope, no more than some guy who rushes back to his fancy hotel so he can hang with the band.

Sucks for the kid and his friends and family.

And for your friends who found him.


Olo, that was you I was talking Eco with, huh?

I had a nice conversation about Focault's in the Soldier Field parking lot..so if that was you, botb..too cool!

my last two cents here...
I remember the messages the band would send out in the late 80's about being respectful of the scene and nearby communities. They knew what happened when it got out of control and then they would not be invited back. (I'm not making any reference to the Hosa scene as I have not been there this year) but to Red Rocks Park.

So far, with the exception of many ticketless people in the park and on the hills, Sunday night, the scene seems pretty mellow compared to the past. I HOPE that this works so that the band can return if it wants to. Several Denver cops I spoke to seemed to think it was working well, but that is only two opinions.

Monday and Tuesday were very cool inside and out of the venue.

Onward to tonight's show and song selection...on 7/10 thread.

Robert, of course I don't know your child. My opinion, like anyone else's is based on my experience. Forget the examples I could use when Jerry was with us, I'll use Mansfield. Parents behind and to the side of us. Two girls, my guess 3 and 5. Telling their parents that they are tired. Want to go home. The music's too loud. The father wanted to go get beer. Mother told him, honey, you can't. Little argument. Kids fall asleep at break only to wake when the show was over.

Parents to our right have, I would say, maybe 3 to 4 months old. Baby is in a child pack on the mother's back. ear plugs in child's ear. Sleeping. Can anyone anyone possibly give me a reason why this child was at the show?? Maybe the parents were selfish?

I do take my son to concerts. Classical, folk. Not ready for jazz yet. Also taken him to Big Bear Concerts, Barney and Wiggles. Had just as much fun there as I have ever had at any Dead show. As some people have said above, having a child is better than any dead show I've ever seen. Watching him light up when Big Bear walked on stage, priceless.

Believe it or not though, was watching View from the Vault 3 and he came in and fell in love with Brent. I had to burn him an only Brent CD except for Let the Good Times (with Brent of Course) and We bid you goodnight, which is his favorite song becasue dad changed the lyrics around so the song was about my son. We sing it every morning when we talk.

I will always expose my son to the music, but I know he would be overwhelmed by the mayhem at the shows. Not as bad now, but still more than a 3 yr old could take IMO.

For the person who judged me for (posh Hotel)staying at nice hotels. I work my ass off. I like to spoil myself. I'm not rich by no means and I'm no snob, I just don't take anyone's shit. Also, I saved (had a Jerry fund in the bank)between each tour for when Jerry and the boys went on tour. Nothing better than a good night sleep when on tour. When I stayed at the places where the scenes were, well, you tell me, how good of a nights sleep do you get or got? Deadheads hanging out in the scenes never sleep. They'd party all night. I know I'll get flamed for this, but I like secuity in any hotel I'm staying at. You can't get a better night sleep. I don't tour anymore. Jerry and the boys are the only band I would ever tour with. Did springsteen once.

Also, I think your name was Oli (sorry if I'm wrong), before going on your tirade saying I should just listen to the discs, you never once told me I was wrong about what I said? I took it as "Hey, deal with it". That's the way it is at Dead related shows??

Trust me, when I was at shows, I did have a blast, even though I did, over the years, expereince everything I wrote above. I dealth with each situation differently. Example. When people would not move in the aisles, even after seeing that my arms were filled with beers, water, or food. My buddies learned this early on. Just pour a little on them. Amazing how fast people move when something is being spilled on them. We apolagize, say we can't get through. It's like Moses parting the sea. Remember that next time you don't move (this is not directed at anyone in general)and someone spills a little on you, it's not an accident. That's their hint that they can't get to their seat becasue you are in the aisle.

Cigarette smoking. I tolerate becasue it's a free country.

People in my seats trying to snibble in. Throw them the fuck out. I don't reason when people are in my seats that GDTS sent me. I always had good luck with great seats. Damned if someone is going to try and share it with me or say, I love this when you know it's your seat."Show me your ticket" I have no problem ratting them out to security. If they would just leave. Fine. Give me shit on my seat, no problem giving them up to security.

I believe in what Phil once said, I think back in 88 or 89. Only leave foot prints in the communities we visit ( I won't even bring up the trash left behind by the supposed save the planet fans). I always did that. Also, always treated people the way I wanted to be treated. Too bad I only saw this in half the heads I would see at the shows. If this makes me a snob, then I'm the biggest snob there is.

okay, i finally have to post. It breaks my heart to see young kids at shows whose parents are out of their minds and can't take care of their kids. But two years ago, we took our friend's two year old to see, as she calls Ratdog and Philand Friends, "Hotdog Lesh" at Fingerlakes. We got to the lot around 3 or 4, and there was plenty for her to do and plenty of other kids there in the lot to play with. We sat all the way up on the lawn near some folks who brought their little boy, and there was plenty of room and FRESH AIR. Not only did Meghan have the time of her life, but so did a lot of other people watching her run around and dance to the music. She crashed on the blanket around 10 and slept like a baby the rest of the night. We got back to the car and headed to our buddy's cousin's place where we were staying. A couple people even thanked us, saying that watching her laugh and dance made their night. She's four now, and we can't say we're going to see Phil Lesh to this day b/c she gets mad that she can't go. We didn't take her to Camden b/c that was "our show" - adults only, so we could party. That was a special night for all of us - it felt like ALL of us were there b/c she was. As long as you're responsible and the venue is okay (indoor venues, needless to say, aren't good for kids) then I don't see anything wrong with it.

Oli, I just read your post. You need to relax. I never said any concerts. I said GD related shows. And yet, you have not told me I was wrong about antything I said. You can call me any names you want, I will not do the same. I don't do that. You can spew all the crap you want, but I still haven't had you tell me I was wrong. I've seen lots of bands like you have and I still say I've never expereinced the rudeness and selfisness as I have at dead shows. My buddies and I have talked about this for years. What we put up to see the greatest band of all time. I've never had a negative vibe or bad time at any jazz or folk show I've ever attended. Never. Maybe I just have good karma at these shows.

I call it like it is. Based on my experience. You insutate that I think I'm high and mighty. Look at your last post. Don't throw stones from your house of glass as Mr. Horsnby would say.

Also Oli, I said toddlers. If you don't have kids, that means up to the age of 5. I wouldn't take my son until he was a teen. To me, by then, he could decide if he wants to go or not. I use the same rule with church. I don't make him go. I will leave it up to him when he is old enough to decide for himself.

Also, I lied on accident in my first post. I think this band is the 2nd best Gd cover band since post Garcia. I still think 98 was the best, but that's a conversation for another title.

"I always pity them at shows becasue their parents think they want to go and in reality your kids would rather be home with you than at a show with us."

Opinion - speak for your own kids - like the many other posts that follow - I take mine and I watch after them

"Yes, filty dirtbag is a rather insulting term, "

Yeah and that was really cool how you took that jaded, old man, played out, generalization about fans of the band Phish, and turned it on fans of the Dead - we're just all scumbags to you huh?

"I've never experienced this at any other concert I've ever attended."
Are you serious - think about that a little more

You are a snob if you think the way you did or do things is so far superior to others

Good Job Olo & BOTB

Some folks round here need HATERaide

Hey Harry..I've never said your actions were wrong(like I wrote..I've done posh and I've done gypsy so it's impossible for me to call anyone's way of travel and style "wrong") and I never out and out called you names or "spewed crap"
But your attitude needs tweaking. As you first insinuated that maybe the sophistos at jazz blasts couldn't stand my deadhead ways (far from reality, in fact) perhaps it is your elitism that makes you feel that GD concerts have the worst behavior.(Also far from reality..No Arena Rock shows in the 70's with quaaludes, liquor, fireworks and fistfights? Think Foghat and Ten Years After..)

And yes..if it comes down to fighting fire with fire, I can surely outsnob a snob but it is only a retalitory response. Call me Even Steven.

Ps I have two children and no, I never brought them to rock concerts when they were younger simply because that is my time.

Excuse me Lazy Lighting, the below is not my quote. Someone else's. If you are going to quote me, quote me and not someone else. I said the person who made in front of them was not very nice. Re-read my posts. I love Trey and Paige and have never made a negative comment about the band or their fans. I've only been talking about dead fans.

"Yeah and that was really cool how you took that jaded, old man, played out, generalization about fans of the band Phish, and turned it on fans of the Dead - we're just all scumbags to you huh? "

And yes, I've never, never experienced rudeness like I have at dead shows. That point goes a little deeper becasue it's dead heads who always talking about love, peace and so on. As my wife jsut whispered in my ear. We saw the Mansfield show then saw Pearl Jam there a week later. She was amazed at how many rude people were at the Dead show and how nice everyone was at Pearl Jam. She said to me and this is coming from someone who never heard of the boys music until she met me two years ago, from what she had always heard, she thought it would have been the other way around. I just smiled and said honey, you prove my point

First Olo, sorry, I kept writing Oli. Second, as you know, when we type here and are responding, sometimes people think if someone replies and pickes something out of their post, then their whole reply must be towards them. When I was talking about you or any other head, I've seen this, going to jazz shows, heads have the tendency to forget the etiquette is different at jazz shows. I've seen this first hand. It was not a jab at you, even though, after re-reading it, I can see why you would take it that way. My last comment was for you becasue you kept on calling me a snob. I grew up in a blue collar household. I was always taught, no one is better than me and no one is lower than me. But there are assholes and hypercrites and I was just pointing that out becasue you don't hear other bands fans talking about peace, love and whatever then turn around and do the opposite. It's a falicy that a lot of people have about dead heads. I see the dead fan shit at Hornsby all the time. Heads try to scam seats that aren't their's, then the hiding game from security. Heads deal with it, fans of Horsnby don't know what the hell to do with it. Fans at jazz show, many of them black, I've seen this, just get aggresive. Saw one huge dude get tired of it, picked up the head by his shoulders, carried him to security and told them if he saw him again, "the boy won't walk out of here"

Everything I've written has been based on my experience. I've said that I had blasts at my shows. How could you not with Jerry playing. Said I've met a lot of nice people. But, I find many heads to be hypercrites. Talking about peace and sharing and so on, then turn right around and leave 4 bags of trash. I know you've seen it. I know we all have seen it. I stand by my point I said earlier. 50% of the fans are out for themselves. Not the music, but themselves. Like you, I've been around a long time, I've seen it.

Like JC and Art in the newsgroup, we all have been around a long time and have seen a lot of things, much of it not so nice. Too make it even worse, when the boys were on, it was easy to ignore it, but when the boys were off, all the crap came to the forefront as we were walking out the doors after the show.

You are though, a litle older than me. My first ever concert was the Dead in Buffalo in 79, so Foghat, etc, 70's band, I never saw. Actually my first shows was Sinatra, Davis and Liza in Framingham, MA. Saw Sinatra later in life. Very average. Wish I could remember the show in Framingham. Too young to remember. I can only remember Sammy dancing. Amazing. It's the only thing I remember from the show. More interested (7th grad) in the older girls running around

Like I said in my first post, I very rarely ever post in any of the newsgroups, but I had to reply to all the peace, love, etc talk. It's there if you look for it, but all the other stuff is too.
Reason I don't tour. Well that's a lie. It's becasue Jerry is gone. But I won't even see two shows on a tour (if I lived near Red Rocks, I think it would different) For all the nice people I meet, I meet the equivelent of bad people. For Jerry it was worth the Hassle, for a good cover band, I don't think it is. Same thing for Phil and Bob's bands. Same type of fans. Obviously. I use to see a lot of music, but now I only see the boys when they are in my area, some other bands I find interesting like Pearl Jam, Springsteen, Ryan Adams and DMB and any jazz show I can catch. And of course anything to do with Sesamee Street, Big Bear and so on.

Ryan Adams, if you don't know him is awsome. He played a killer Wharf Rat when I saw him. I didn't even know he was into the dead when I saw him. His music is nothing like the GD.

for the record...the kid who was killed (supposedly by security who threw him off a highway overpass) at the Meadowlands was Adam Katz, not Kahn. just feel like he should get his due. tragic event

for all those who are on the lesh list (lesh_list@yahoogroups.com - awesome trading site)! you know we've had this type of shit before - people posting back and forth to each other when it's better kept personal. I'm not saying don't post your opinoins or anything (I stated mine above about the whole bringing kids to the show thing), I'm saying that if you have something to say to someone personally, ask that person their email or invite them to a chat room to discuss.

Another note: FIRST SET YET??? At least part of it???? I'm dying here!!

That whole flower power children thing has been always blown way out of proportion with The 60's and The Grateful Dead. The vibe was always more of freewheelin' anarchy and fun lovin' piracy. Not Leary but Kesey, not flower children, but hungry freaks, Abbie Hoffman more than MLKjr. An acid test not a love-in. Some of the biggest fans of the GD were the Hell's Angels. Pranksterism is part of the code.
I think alot disillusion for many is comin' to a show and expecting everyone to hug. That expectation was wrong back in the 60's and it still doesn't hold true.
When one reads Hunter's lyrics, the tales of misbegotten mischief completely overwhelm any naive idealism about peace and love.
Heaven help the fool who tries to box in the Deadheads.

http://www.philzone.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=18860&post=429125#POST429125

Harry I took that line right from your post - follow the link bro

I just pointed out how you took the slam on Phish fans that comes up around here every 20 minutes and turned it into a slam on Deadheads

The generalization was that we're all smelly - well not all the time !!

I love to rage the lot, meet peeps, have fun, play with new drummers, etc. - I can camp go to a hotel or drive home _ and I won't judge you for any path you take - with or without your children

I first saw PJ at the second Lallapolooza - great show, although being in the first 50' close to the stage I feared for my safety - maybe thier fans are a little older now, have kinda mellowed, maybe ? ?

Take care man, I appreciate your point of view - peace

Here are a few reasons why Tuesdays show was so good.

A) Very big dose of Joan. Joan had at least a portion of the lead vocals on ½ step, new speedway, night of 1000 stars, deep elm, staggar lee, mr charlie, built to last, rueben and cherise, comes a time, and lovelight. The sharing of verses between Joan and Bobby was very dynamic. They even shared lines within verses in staggar lee with some very entertaining roll playing on the "buy me a gin fizz love". I am going to make another post with some comments about Joan.
B) Jimmy was so involved and creative compared to Sunday and Monday. Its good to see him go for it.
C) What a Jerryfest with 12 Jerry Tunes.
D) Bob Weir was in top form. He has sounded great all week but Sunday and Monday had to many Wier tunes for my taste.
E) The drumers showed up to play. For the first time this week I saw them wanting to dirve the music with the drums.
F) It may have to do with my location, but I could hear the bass much better than I could on Sunday and Monday.
G) Jeff was a major force in the first set on both keys and organ. I was not nearly so impressed in the ratdog show I saw with Jeff on keyboards. I am a big Phil and Friends fan and I love Rob for how tuned in he is with that band (and for bringing us "I am the Walrus"). However, I must say that Jeff shows more chops. P.S. Let Rob Sing !
H) Everything worked all night. Not one song bombed out. The entire band was on all night.

Very nice friend of the devil. I just love Halfstep and I was so excited when Joan came in on the second verse. The vocal rounds in the course were great fun. New Speedway was more fun with the crowd steeling to show on the "spent a little time on the mountain". Very interesting arrangement on Deep Elm. I mentioned stagger lee above, and Mr. Charlie positively rocked the house.

The second set started of great and was in full swing by the time they got to the jam at the end of truckin, Jimmy and Joan were spectacular on reuben and cherise. Joan will only get better with that song once she gets to were she doesn't have to check her notes for the lyrics. Baba jingo really travel's and it pulled right into another spectacular drums. From my perspective the happy birthday instrumental was part of space. Space was a great backdrop for the very touching short silent celebration that unfolded on stage with three children bringing Joan flowers followed by the crew bringing out a cake with Joan blowing out the candles then thanking the crowd before space melted into a thoroughly enchanting comes a time. Joan had all the lyrics of this song memorized. More jimmy magic for uncle johns and the playin reprise then it was time to finish us off with a high energy dose of lovlelight. Joan's showed great showmanship in effortlessly leading a seamless audience participation segment. Nothin left to do but sit back and take in the Brokendown palace encore.

I have always been a big Joan fan since having the opportunity to see her a few times in a small nightclub called RedCreek in Rochester NY before the Relish album came out. I'd like to respond to some of the comments I have seen about her. I have to disagree with any criticism with how she moves on stage. Most of her body movement looks to me like a singer feeling the music. Her ability to feel the music is part of what makes her so great and so perfect for improvisation. Aside from Gender I don't understand the inclination to compare Joan to Donna . Her brand of blues and her sensuality remind me much more of Pigpen. I also see a lot of Jerry. She rivals Jerry with some of the headiness in her vocals. Her mind is very quick and she seems to effortlessly thinking out the treatment of every line as she sings. She also has some of jerry's showmanship in how she can evoke a response from the audience with the timing of a smile or by putting a little extra something in her vocals on just the right lyric. She was all about raw power and soul back in the days of those Redcreek shows in Rochester and its so wonderful to see that she has matured into such a seasoned veteran performer. With time I think you will see more of the spectacular harmonizing that we get at phil shows if Joan sticks around.

After reading the postings of this tour and seeding the first two shows at Red Rocks it seems that Joan should be a long term part of the Dead family. After seeing Tuesday nights show it seems not only that she should but that she MUST !!! get on the bus and stay on. In fact I think this is one of those things were once it happens you just can't go back. I think the dead would struggle if they have to do a tour without Joan.. This may sound a little to absolute but when you think about it Warren would be the only possible replacement. It is far from a forgone conclusion that she would want to make a long term commitment with the dead. I just hope she that she is becoming part of a special thing. Perhaps our overwhelming acceptance can win her over. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

My aunt turned to me during this show and said "She's gonna fit into the family just fine!" with a big ol' smile on her face and I have to agree!!

Can somebody with some sense please implore Phil to stop singing! I listened to the Cold Rain from Red Rocks and was mortified and frightened. Can anyone argue that Phil is clearly the worst singer in the band (Mickey excepted)? Yes, I agree, it was cute when Phil sang one or two songs on a tour and people called out "Let Phil sing" but come on, it was a joke. Sort of like your drunk uncle singing at the family reunion, funny, but extremely embarrassing. I'll even take Rob over Phil. It can't be just ego that compels him to sing, can it? Is it not enough to be the locomotive that drives the rhythm section? Guy is an amazing bass player so why divert people's appreciation for that talent with horrendous singing. In all honesty, Phil's singing is painful for me. Phil, please stop scaring us!. p.s. you are one of the greatest bass players on earth!

well, some folks, such as myself, actually enjoy phil's vocals. i was there for that cold rain, and i thought it was great.

people should stop making decisions based on streaming audio...it's really not the same.

I think it was some guy named Jeff who used the dirtbag line. Rude......

Harry was the guy who sounded a little full of himself but is just living how he feels it. I wonder what he thinks goes on at the motel 6? I share a room with a couple friends, drink a couple beers, maybe order pizza. Rehash the show, listen to tunes. I think he thinks there are drum circles in the hallway.

I've seen enough shows in person to know that Phil is a very, very, very bad singer.

Back on the bus. You do what feels good for you. I'll do the same. As long as we only leave foot prints where we go and treat others like we like to be treated, then we're fine. My statements above were about fans who don't do this but pretend they do.

And yes, in the beginning when I would stay at the Motel 6 type of motels, yes, there were drum cirlces in the hallways:. Not saying this is a bad thing, just not my thing. I like sleep.

I laugh that you bring up drum circles becasue to me, during shows, that's when is was bathroom break.

I've seen somewhere in the neighborhood of 180 shows...and although I've always loved seeing Phil sing, there are really only a few that he CAN sing. I love the man to death, he's a great inspiration to us all, but I do have to agree that there are some songs he shouldn't lead on...now his subtle background vocals are great while working with Phil & Friends and even with Joan in The Dead. He has a great deep voice that fits perfectly behind others. I'd still rather hear him sing over Mickey though...they both have their own forte` (bass playing and drumming), but Mickey couldn't even rythmatically follow Fire On The Mountain. Sunday was my first time hearing Mickey try vocals and I do have to say I was almost ashamed. Hearing that kinda tainted my view on other songs of his at first that he did on monday, tuesday and last night. After hearing the streams of his own songs, they really weren't as awful as I thought. So just like Phil, they should only stick to certain songs that suit them well. Everyone has their own vocal range, and when fit with the correct songs, they can sound great! Either way, I do give them both an 'A' for effort...but effort isn't what most fans are after at a concert.

>>>there are really only a few that he CAN sing

i'll venture to kindly disagree. i'm with mnwolfman. i'll take phil singing morning dew, terrapin, cold rain anyday. phil's one of my favorite singers. i can see how his voice isn't for everyone but i'de take him over bobby singing anyday.

happy friday all

enjoy the show tonight!

Oh yeah...one more thing I just noticed...who puts together the setlists for philzone.com? Because I'm like 99.9% positive the encore last night was Loose Lucy and not Knockin' on Heaven's Door. Maybe there was something funky floating through the air that affected my judgement on the song name?

I love it when phil sings, it put's a smile on my face every time.It's all about what happens between the singing that matters to me.

Now...as far as the 'scene' goes. It's always been the same since I can remember...good seeds and bad seeds. They are everywhere. But I do have to say that on a whole, the crowd has been great here at Red Rocks. I just feel fortunate to have a venue like this basically in my back yard. It's so tough to go to another outdoor venue after being spoiled with a place like this.

So I got a little beer spilled on me, someone tried to sit on our blanket and say it was his, someone danced in front of me...etc. I've tolerated this stuff for years and now that we are fortunate enough to see most of the band again, I just sit there with a smile and take it for what it is.

I do have to say that my last show was Deer Creek 1995, and we all know what happened there (fences ripped down by fans inside and out) and then show cancelled for the next day because of that. That really affected me more than people dancing in front of me or whatnot. There are and will be inconsiderate people everywhere on your journey through life...even at a Dead show. Just remember, why YOU are there, what you are there for, and try not to let anyone else's actions ruin that time for you.

>>>>try not to let anyone else's actions ruin that time for you.

Right-o that.

2.5 weeks til showtime.

?? for West Coast Heads.(Red Rocks and S.F were always a dream that I will never get to see come to fruiation) It has been passed on to me, that seeing shows in the West (all my 300 or so shows where in the east from north to south) is much different than in the east. More mellow, more room to groove, people are nicer. What is your input? Don't get me wrong people on the east, I would never live anywhere else in the world besides good ole MA. I'm just curious of what I heard is true.

O.K. I stand corrected. The dirtbag phish comment was in very poor taste. I am sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intention to be rude or snobbish. Enjoy the shows.

East coast, west coast, people are all the same, we live in the great melting pot of cultural homoginazation, even in dead land. Besides, most people at shows are from someplace else anyway. I was at Phish the other night at Shoreline taking an informal survey of where people were from, probably 80% were from out of state.

Mspinelli, I liked your Joan comments, I too have been a big fan of hers for a long time. She is playing a show with her own band next Wednesday at Villa Montalvo, a haughty estate in Saratoga, which is a haughty little suburb of San Jose. It should be a blast, I'll have to see what I can do to tweak the status quo, but I promise not to tear down any fences, it's hard to keep coming back when your in jail. And keeping coming back for more, is the most important thing, I think.

I love kids at shows, their energy and wide eyed wonder are inspiring. All ages means exactly that!!

Good Thread, thanks

Freak-

Wouldn't it be great though if you could appreciate the singing as well as what goes on in between? Why settle? Life's too short!

Having seen most of my shows (~500) on the east coast, I have seen them at Red Rocks and SF as well, and I do believe that there is a difference. Maybe because the Bay Area gets so many shows, the shows don't get quite as frenetic.

Example, how many east coast shows and tapes have the band pleading with the audience to 'step back'. I've been against the rail on the east coast many times getting crushed by the push.

When I saw New Year's 84 and Kaiser 3/88, I could walk right up to the front, not quite the rail, but pretty close. I was blown away by how relaxed it was. Like I said, maybe it's because they see so many shows.

But, there's also a reverse effect. I didn't think the crowd in SF was quite as repsonsive to Jerry. On the east coast, once Jerry started a strong lead and started hitting the high notes, the crowd would freak! It seemed like it took a lot more to get the crowd going in SF. And, I'm talking about 3/16, 17/88 when they played two incredible shows out of the 3. I was thinking 'what does it take to please these guys?'

My brother moved out to the Bay Area many years ago and confirmed my belief. He's seen close to 750 shows so I trust his read.

Having said that, though, Red Rocks GA has been pretty much a zoo for the past few days. A little more like the east coast.

phil is the shiz and can sing what ever he wants and the new phil shiz is the shiznit.

Lando, I agree pretty much entirely with what you said. I've lived more than 15 years in the Bay Area and more than 15 on the east coast, seeing many shows both places. And the east coast people are much more enthusiastic and/or beasts, depending on how you look at it, and the west coast people are too mellow and don't put out when the band deserves it and/or much more polite, depending on how you look at it. I've been involved in this discussion at least twice on this board in other threads.

However, I wanted to argue for possible modification of your view on west coasters if you feel your experience on 3/16/88 was representative. that strange St. Patrick's Day run at Kaiser was the last stand of small crowds at the Kaiser after the In The Dark emmigration. The first show, on Wed., was nowhere near sold out...there was basically nobody there. I was loving all the extra room. The Thurs. St. Pattie's show and the Friday show were pretty packed, but not as bad as it had been after Jerry was sick 1-1/2 years before, or as bad as it got during the next 2 years before they stopped playing there. it would get so packed that you could be in the hall and find that you were unable to move for 20 minutes. in any direction. but those 3/88 shows were a nice reminder of what it was like in '85 and before.

I have complained loud and long about the west coast fans not even bothering to clap after a particularly hot show. but there was the occasional exception, like the 11/7/87 (only 4 months before those 3/88 shows), where the fans, after an incredible show, clapped for 15 minutes after the lights came on and demanded a second encore, and I was proud to be there. usually, though, you are correct that west coast fans are lame. On the other hand, I must admit that it's better than having people sing all the songs into your ear while they're being played, as has frequently happened to me at NE shows.

Always have wondered what you guys talk about on here. Just wanted to interject to Harry way after the fact that a 3 or 4 month old baby might be at the show because he or she might have to BREASTFEED you know that thing that breasts are really for as opposed to hanging out the side of halter tops.

We went to Friday night's show with our 10 mo. old daughter. Two older kids were with a babysitter. Babysitter gets almost as much as paying for a ticket. We get a babysitter once or twice a year so phrankly I'm going to do whatever I want with my baby who didn't bother anybody. We were much more bothered by the guy who puked over the stairs about two feet away from us...

Not annoyed just venturing out
and this is not Bill it's his wife Jeannine

Clifton Hanger - I have one east coast experience with the crowd that has never been duplicated, anywhere, for any band. At the 7/9/77 JGB show at Asbury Park, NJ, Garcia had just finished the most ripping show. The crowd went nuts. The lights came on and the music came up, the roadies started clearing the stage....and the crowd continued to go nuts with no let up. 10 minutes later and the lights go back off and Jerry comes out to play the second encore, a 20 minute Not Fade Away. Never saw that before or after, east or west coast.

Didn't know that 3/16/88 was not sold out. Still doesn't seem to matter on the east coast. Sold out or not, the front of the floor is always out of control, reserved or GA.

BTW, what was it about 11/7/87 that got the crowd going, two encores? That set list doesn't look all that great, 11/6 looks better...and the west coast is kind of picky that way. Any insights from being there?

I think the 11/7/87 show was one of those shows where it didn't matter what songs were being played, but rather how they were being played, and the crowd just didn't want it to end. also, it was Saturday Night, and there likely was a sense of entitlement for One More. your experience at Asbury Park sounds very similar.

as for the space at the front of the floor, there was an entirely different system at work on the west coast, or at least at the Bay Area shows. people would wait in line the night before or early in the morning, and BGP would hand out priority stubs (numbered movie tickets) to come back and get in the front of the line at 4:00 before the show. then people would go in and put blankets on the floor and tape them down, edge to edge. people were very territorial about their blanket space. if you didn't have a space reserved, you would be moved along to get off someone's blanket. generally, however, if interlopers were persistent, they could eventually find somewhere to stay, and would definitely be tolerated for short periods of time. many times the blanket people took up more space than they needed, so it wasn't very packed down there, for example when you wandered down there in '84 and '88. those '84 NY's shows weren't that packed, either, and the SF Civic (now BGCivic) is even smaller than Kaiser.

I never saw these blanket reservations happen on the east coast. I actually tried a few times at Hampton, but pretty much had my space over-run by the unwashed horde. the Bay Area just got so many more shows than other areas that a more sophisticated system developed through trial-and-error and repetition. of course, this year, the east coast has all the shows, so perhaps a new sophistication is developing in New Jersey...

Sounds like I was just lucky when I happened to be on the left coast for shows. That sounds like a great system, but one that would never work on the east coast. Everyone is just too jacked up and there is no respect for anyone's personal space (or anything else for that matter).

I'm with Harry. I've had my share of fun parking lot experiences beginning in 1980. But every year since, I've enjoyed it less and less.

I don't really think the scene has changed. I think I have changed. Stuff I used to see go down at Dead shows seemed cool, underground, subversive. Now I just find it depressing and ugly. But I still go for the music because that's the reason I always went. Don't get me wrong, I'll still go and grab a few beers before a show and look at all the wild stuff for sale, maybe even give a beggar a buck or two, but the scene itself is just not for me. Those are my own personal feelings.

And I also agree with Harry that (from my personal point of view) there is a lot of hypocrisy in the Dead scene. My biggest peeve is that often dirty and drug using people want to be accepted for who they are and left alone but then turn around and have no tolerance for people with short hair or who drive expensive cars. They think their chosen life style is somehow better than others'. Not everybody is like that, but it's definitely there. I don't have a problem with people being dirty or using drugs. Just don't leave a bunch of garbage on the ground, piss on my car, or steal my shit.

Ok, Shag, and others that think west coasters don't appreciate shows enough:

I grew up in the Bay Area, and have seen ~200 shows all over the country, most of them in CA. Perhaps people are not only more polite on the west, but they are actually trying to LISTEN to the music! I found that many fans on the east are more interested in performing the songs themselves than they are interested in hearing the professionals perform. This is not only irritating to other fans, but it's as disrespectful as it comes. When I go to a show, I want to be able to listen to the music, the lyrics, and come up with my own opinion of the performance. That's impossible when there are jerks everywhere that only care about the "crowd pleasing" songs. My opinion is that west coast heads are very discriminating, and critical of the music. And I think that the Dead appreciate that. Perhaps it IS because there have always been more shows on the west. So what. If we've been blessed with the opportunity to see so many shows that we know what we like, then so be it, lucky us!
Just got to see 3 of the 5 Red Rocks shows, and they certainly Rocked! Tuesday and Friday were my faves. I love Joan. This combo of people is just what this group has been looking for ever since we lost Jerry.
Keep it up!

Don't you guys enjoy hearing "Dahk Stah Jewee" yelled in your ears at top volume? On top of that, you would be tolerating that crowd at the Nassau Coliseum or Meadowlands or Madison Square Garden or something like that.

On a more positive note, anyone read Electric Kool Aid Acid test lately? I picked it up after 25 years right after Red Rocks. Great read....really brings you back. It also puts a lot of the scene in perspective. I mean, aren't the Pranksters what Deadheads have tried to emulate all along? And what would Kesey and Babbs think of the current Dead scene anyway? Too much, too late?

Hey folks. I just got back from my five night run at Red Rocks and I have to say WOW!!!! What an amazing run of shows at the most spectacular venue I have ever seen. I have a few things to add in these various discussions. In reguards to the crowd and the scene, I saw 14 shows this tour and I have to say that the scene at the shows was overall pretty positive. The people I met were some of the coolest people I ever met. I saw a lot of kindness over the course of the tour, and I tried to spread a lot of kindness myself. Were there people over the course of the tour who were assholes or were inconsiderate or selfish? Sure. But you find that in every aspect of life. There are bad apples everywhere. But to generalize and label the majority of the scene based on a few dicks is just ludicrous. The smiles, good vibes, and kindness were overflowing out of the venues that I saw this summer. I can't comment on the scene prior to Jerry's death because I wasn't there, but I've heard a few horror stories in the later years, and this tour wasn't anything like what was described to me. And the real deadheads were the ones in the venue or working the lots to buy tickets to get in to the shows. The scene is comprised of people that are there for the music and the band, not the people that are in the background in the lots trying to cop as many drugs as they can with no intentions of going in. I have no problem with people getting high at shows, myself included, as long as the intention is to get in to the show and enjoy it in whichever way you choose to enjoy it. I have a problem with the folks that travel half way across the country without a dime in their pocket expecting a free ride through the process. I saved long and hard to make it to the shows I went to and if it's within my power to help someone out, I will. But to go to a show expecting hand outs is whack, and it makes people think that thats is what deadheads are like. The real deadheads are the ones making the scene a kinder, friendlier place. I was staying at Hosa, and getting to and from my car in the free parking lot was the biggest hassle with all the people asking for change, rides, and just being rude dicks in general. But even there I was able to find some of the finest examples of what makes this scene so special. Nick at Nite was pretty cool if you saw them at free parking at Hosa. You got a cigarette, we need a cigarette, you need a cigarette, we got a cigarette. They had a great service going on there. No other band that I have ever scene attracts the kind of diverse, kind, and overall excellent crowd that the Dead draws in. You can believe it or disagree, but that is my experience. All the assholes I ran into couldn't even come close to ruining the great time I had and the awesome people I met and the kindness they emitted. Musically, the Dead are better than they've ever sounded since Jerry died. You MUST see a show this summer if you haven't seen them yet, and last fall doesn't count. I saw four shows last fall and every show I saw this tour blew the fall out of the water with the exception of a couple that were on par with the fall. GO SEE THEM. You won't be dissapointed. Joan is great. Jimmy is getting better with every show, and he already kicked ass in the fall. Bobby is playing and singing at a much higher level than the fall tour. Billy and Mickey will silence those who miss Molo(not to take anything away form him, cause I think he's great too, but he's no Rythm Devils). Phil is laying down some of the fattest and greatest bass lines I've ever heard him play, and his vocals are more subtle with less strain. Rob and Jeff are both excellent, and I'll take both of them and hope this lineup is permanent, because they haven't sounded this good live since I started going to Dead related shows in 2000(I know I missed Jerry, and I regret it, but I was only fifteen when he played his last shows and didn't have the slightest clue as to what I was missing out on). The Dead and the scene that surrounds them is great. There are a few buttholes here and there, but they shouldn't overpower the kindness and great peeps that are what makes this scene. For instance, I got shot by a paintball gun on Wed. night while I was walking around the vendors at Hosa. My right lung was collapsed all week because I'm not used to the elevation(I'm from low elevation New Jersey). I got shot in the back right where my right lung was collapsed. I was pissed, and I was thinking what an asshole that coward was for shooting a stranger in the back as he is looking for something to eat after a day of blood drives, hot weather, and pain due to a collapsed lung. The same instant that I got shot, I met some really cool heads that made me smile and I forgot about the incident almost immediately. There is a lot more good in the scene and in the world than we usually hear about. We usually only dwell on the bad things that happen, when in reality, there is more good out there that goes by unnoticed. Be happy folks. We are alive and we have been blessed with a band and a scene that really is a beacon of hope and light in a world of misunderstandings and petty conflicts that only take us further and further away from the light. Enjoy the second leg you lucky folks who will get to see it. I hope I'll see you all at Jones Beach if I can find tickets and maybe Darien Lake as well. Take care, and stay positive. And thanks to all the kind souls who helped make this tour one of the most beautiful experiences I've had the pleasure of having and being a part of. And if you're looking for the show to buy, look no further than Thursday night at the Rocks. It was a real gem. Peace.

"Don't you guys enjoy hearing "Dahk Stah Jewee" yelled in your ears at top volume? On top of that, you would be tolerating that crowd at the Nassau Coliseum or Meadowlands or Madison Square Garden or something like that."

Not exactly sure what D(Lando) is talking about there

I thought I d'd chime in on the whole east coast west coast thing. I have been to 125+ GD shows 85-95and saw many in NY,NJ. Some west coast and some mid west. I think the vibe on the east shows was always a little more high strung and intense. I think you can say that about that part of the country as well. Doesnt it feel different when you are waliking around NYC compared to SF ? I also think the band was (is) more relaxed and comfortable when they can go home at night and not get back on on the bus or go t o the hotel. They can be with their family and sleep in their own beds. Wouldn't you be more comfortable?

I was lucky enough to be at Mond and Tues of Red Rocks and thought it was one of the best concert experiences 'Ive ever had at any show, any band. Maybe because I always wanted to go and had finally got there. The band also palyled better than they had at the two east shows I had seen. I guess they had found a new groove. One more show at Jones Beach. Will probably be a bummer after Red Rocks.

Right On Pete!!!!

I think you hit some perfect points about the scene, band and especially music.

Too bad you missed Jerry though. Some classic NJ shows!!!

Peace